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Test Those Breasts ™️
This podcast by Jamie Vaughn is a deep-dive discussion on a myriad of breast cancer topics, such as early detection, the initial shock of diagnosis, testing/scans, treatment, loss of hair, caregiving, surgery, emotional support, and advocacy.
These episodes will include breast cancer survivors, thrivers, caregivers, surgeons, oncologists, therapists, and other specialists who can speak to many different topics.
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified health care providers, therefore does not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers.
Test Those Breasts ™️
Ep. 34: Expert Nipple Tattoo Artistry: Reclaiming Wholeness Post-Mastectomy
In this episode, Crystal Yang and Courtney Delgado, two remarkable nurses, and founders of "Perky" in San Antonio, Texas, share their transformative journey and the strides they are making in the realm of breast cancer survivorship. Our conversation delves into the intimate process of nipple tattooing, a final step in breast reconstruction that embodies both empowerment and restoration for many women. Crystal and Courtney's personal experiences in oncology nursing have equipped them with a profound understanding of the complexities that survivors face, fueling their mission to advocate for individualized care and involvement in the healing journey. Further, the women in Crystal's own family who have battled breast cancer add value to her experience.
Championing the cause doesn't stop at the tattooing chair, as we learn from our guests' relentless battle for insurance coverage and their efforts to navigate the murky waters of healthcare bureaucracy. Their stories highlight the emotional and technical intricacies of the tattooing process, from addressing fears of pain to achieving natural-looking results. They underscore the crucial role of expertise, technique, and pigment selection in crafting tattoos that not only heal scars but also restore confidence. Survivors listening in will find solace in the fact that there are dedicated professionals like these two who understand the nuances of the journey and are fiercely advocating for their rights and well-being.
Correction from the last episode of Season 1: I will now be releasing my episodes every Tuesday, at 5 a.m. PST for Season 2!
Contact Crystal and Courtney at "Perky"
Perky
8042 Wurzbach Rd. Suite 110
San Antonio, TX 78229
Telephone: 210-712-9765
Resources:
The Breasties on Instagram
Pink Warrior Advocates on Instagram
Are you loving the Test Those Breasts! Podcast? You can show your support by donating to the Test Those Breasts Nonprofit @ https://testthosebreasts.org/donate/
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Jamie Vaughn in the News!
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I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified healthcare providers, therefore may not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers .
Welcome to season two of Test those Breasts podcast. I am your host, jamie Vaughan. I am really excited to continue this journey and mission into 2024 to help shorten the overwhelming learning curve for those who are newly diagnosed, or yet to be diagnosed, with breast cancer. It has been such an honor and a privilege to be able to connect and interview many survivors, caregivers, oncologists, surgeons, nurses, therapists, advocates and more, in order to provide much needed holistic guidance for our breast cancer community. Breast cancer has become such an epidemic, so the more empowered we are, the better. By listening, rating, reviewing and sharing this podcast, it truly does help bring in more listeners from all over the world. I appreciate your help in spreading this knowledge. My episodes are released weekly on Apple, spotify and other platforms, and soon to be on YouTube. Now let's listen to this next episode of Test those Breasts. Hello friends, welcome back to this episode of Test those Breasts. I am your host, jamie Vaughan, and today I am so happy to have two amazing women on my show Crystal Yang and Courtney Delgado.
Speaker 1:So in their 10 plus years working with the breast cancer community, founders Crystal Yang and Courtney Delgado noticed firsthand the many side effects their patients dealt with after surviving breast cancer. They realized that thriving after breast cancer isn't easy. They saw a void in the end of breast cancer survivors journey and decided to use their passion and expertise to fill it. They say that our focus is the woman behind the tumor. Perky was created to bring positivity to this difficult journey in hopes of helping women thrive in their next chapter of life.
Speaker 1:Well welcome, welcome. Welcome, crystal and Courtney. I am so glad that we are connecting today to talk about some really important things that you do, and I'm just excited because I'm really, really picky about who I choose to be on my podcast, because all I want to do is add as much value as I possibly can to help shorten the learning curve for other breast cancer survivors and patients, and those people who haven't even been diagnosed yet, and even caregivers, you know, because there were so many things I did not know before I got breast cancer and it was so overwhelming, and so I was referred to you to by a friend of mine and I started to get on your Instagram and look around and I just really really was drawn in and so intrigued with what you do for a living. So welcome to this show, crystal. How are you doing?
Speaker 2:Good, how are you? Thanks for having us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm so excited. How about you, courtney, doing great? I'm excited to chat, great, great. So I want to start out by asking both of you and we'll start with you, crystal, first what led you to this interest in helping other people with their breast cancer journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so every female on my mother's side has had breast cancer. So my grandmother, my mother, my aunt even a non-blood aunt they've all suffered with breast cancer, so I was thankfully able to help a lot of them through their journeys. I've done all their nipple tattoos, but they were definitely my inspiration in becoming a nurse first of all and secondly, starting my own business catered to the breast cancer community.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm just so happy that, not that you have this big line of breast cancer in your family, but just having that fire in your belly to help other people and feel better about themselves. So thank you for that. How about you, courtney? How did you get involved?
Speaker 3:Well, I started out, crystal and I went to nursing school together and I went into the hospital after graduating and it's kind of a revolving door of patients. It's still being an advocate and caring, but you get a limited interaction with each person. So when I left the hospital and Crystal brought me into the place where she was working at the time, helping women through breast reconstruction, I had no idea, like you before your diagnosis, the world of breast cancer and breast reconstruction in particular. So it was a really cool, positive experience to help women through their breast reconstruction journey and it was unique to get to build a relationship with each person over a long span of time. So it just you really become a very important advocate for that community and it was just. I fell in love with it as soon as I started it.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, crystal. And one thing we noticed working in breast reconstruction is nipple tattooing tended to be an afterthought. You know. Many doctors offices offer it, but it's real like, yeah, you know, we'll do it here, so and so we'll do it, you'll get it done and that's that and then you'll be done with us, versus really making the woman a part of the process, where they get to be part of the color selection and detail work. It was just such an afterthought and if they didn't have it at the doctor's office, they were having it at a tattoo parlor where perhaps that's not their vibe, you know, perhaps they don't want to go to a traditional tattooist to have this done. So, you know, having the idea to create a space, a safe space where survivors can come, knowing that this area is, you know, safe for them, catered specifically to them, created for them, we thought that would be really special and needed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I appreciate you saying that, because I personally, if I'm going to get something done like this, I want to go to someone who specializes in this type of work, and you bring up a really valid point about including the survivor in on the decision about colors and what you know, just because when you're in a doctor's office, sometimes they're not really great with holistic care and so they're not really necessarily paying attention to your emotional and mental health, whereas you guys have created this wonderful environment where you all work together in how it's going to come out, and I just think that that is phenomenal. So thank you for saying that, crystal. What are some of the things you noticed about breast cancer patients and survivors that kind of left a void in their lives?
Speaker 2:So I guess, like I mentioned, the nipple tattooing, but also, you know, part of our whole mission is we acknowledge that cancer in general can just take so much from you. It's take, take, take. You know, taking your breast, getting an amputation. Really, maybe you weren't necessarily super involved in the whole reconstructive phase or maybe you were limited to your options, so it was a lot of having to give and then taking nipple tattoo is something you can give back to yourself, something that can be very restorative in nature, and we're so privileged to be able to be a part of that final step, because a lot of times it's the last step. We call it the cherry on top to help provide closure. Yeah, courtney.
Speaker 3:And just to add on to that, I think a lot of women feel as they're going through treatment there's so many doctor's appointments and so much face to face with their care providers, but then once they're cured they're just kind of dropped off and the appointments are gone and maybe they're a little insecure about that. So we want to be a space where people can come. Our background in breast reconstruction helps us understand how the medical knowledge to what they're going through and what they've been through, so we can kind of be a sound board for them and just a safe space, like she said, for them to come and feel still that they're getting cared for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really love that. That just makes me feel so happy that not only you have a service that can provide the cherry on the top a cherry on top, if you will but also you have an understanding of where the emotional and mental health is at that point. Because you are absolutely right, we are so inundated with appointment after appointment. And I remember, very shortly after I was diagnosed and I was going to get my PET scan and I was just about to get my port installed that same day and my husband took me to my appointment I looked up to the building and it said city of hope or something like that, and I had a literal full on meltdown in the parking lot because it hit me. It just hit me like a ton of bricks. Oh, my God, this is what my life is right now. This is what my life is gonna consist of for however many months until I get through this breast cancer, and it freaked me out.
Speaker 1:So it was appointment after appointment and not all of my providers really had that ability for holistic care. You know they just said this is what you're doing, blah, blah, blah. And so to have that sort of real treat afterwards, to treat yourself to really, you know, help you with your body image. And again, going back to this is not a boob job, this is an amputation of your breasts and that is just tremendously horrific to even think about and to even wrap your mind around. So I'm excited at some point to get my own nipple tattoos.
Speaker 2:So there's that I know a girl who can do it.
Speaker 1:I do too. Yeah, it's really cool, courtney. What are some ways and we've kind of talked a little bit about this already, but what are some other ways that you've been able to help breast cancer survivors move forward in their lives?
Speaker 3:Yes, I think one thing to know is how impactful the nipple tattooing is in moving forward. When they're finished with surgery but haven't done the nipple tattooing, it can feel incomplete to some women. I think most women are very surprised at just how impactful it is when they take that first look in the mirror and it is closure on the journey. It can really help complete that chapter of their lives so they can move forward. We also like to be advocates, so we help with insurance reimbursement and we can kind of fight for getting as much reimbursement as possible. So we really try to advocate and we like to provide community resources. So we're doing whatever community events we can. We also donate nipples when we can. We provide education on our social media, on our Instagram, we like to promote self breast exams and just general information about women's health, breast cancer, breast reconstruction, nipple tattooing, anything that has to do with this world, because it is a lot of knowledge. There's a lot out there that women just don't know.
Speaker 1:Right, and I like the fact that you both have such great knowledge about breast cancer just because of the experiences that you've had, either with your family and so, if you ever were to get breast cancer, you have a lot of knowledge that I wish I would have had. So will it be easy? No, it's not an easy journey, but, gosh, you guys have such a wonderful myriad of information that really can help you through, and you have a really good support system as well. So you had mentioned something about insurance. Is that a difficult thing to get insurance companies to cover?
Speaker 2:So nipple tattooing is the final stage of breast reconstruction. In theory it is linked to all of. If you've had mastectomy, all of your reconstructive surgeries should be covered by insurance. Now, insurance they like to find little loopholes or they like to take their sweet time with payout, but we always help all of our nipple tattoo ladies or men with reimbursement. So we'll give them all the coding of letter of medical necessity. So we'll chat with them, we'll get a little of their history and we'll type up a letter for them and then we'll fill out a reimbursement form just to help them with the reimbursement process. And everyone's scenario is a little different, but yes, insurance should be covering it. Sadly, in this day and age we're still struggling with fighting with insurance.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was gonna add on to that that this is just a specialized service that sometimes they don't understand. It can be strange for them to be talking about nipple tattooing. So if you're getting the wrong personnel that you're speaking with, sometimes they'll tell you it's cosmetic, which is a big kick because it's in no way, shape or form cosmetic. So that's what I mentioned advocating If we need to call and explain on someone's behalf because they're not as familiar with that service code we do that.
Speaker 1:I love the fact that you know about that service code, because having someone like you advocate for the patient is just so impactful, and I know that people have a hard time even getting their reconstruction along with their mastectomy because they do see it as cosmetic and it's just not, you know, and so paying attention to women's health laws and codes, insurance codes and things like that. So I'm so glad that you guys are super knowledgeable about that. So, crystal, are actually Courtney. What are people most concerned about when getting nipple tattoos?
Speaker 3:A lot of the time. This is the woman's first tattoo, so they number one just don't know what to expect at all. They're fearful of pain in particular. So we always chat through the process that we do. A lot of times your sensation is less after having surgery. But we also have topical numbers we can use if you are feeling little areas of pain.
Speaker 3:And most of the time what we see is when we do get into an area that has a little sensation, it's more exciting than painful. It's like, oh great, I can feel that because things are so desensitized after surgery. But I think that's people's number one concern is it gonna be painful? And then, just if you do Google this, there's so many different ways that people do the tattooing. There's different ink lines that people use and some are softer and more natural looking than others. So a lot of people are fearful that they're gonna end up with a harsh they call it kind of a pepperoni look to the nipple with no detail, just something that looks unnatural on their complexion and on their new breast. So we got through that.
Speaker 1:My husband said you should get little daisies or something like that. I'm like no, I want nipples. I'm like what? No, thank you, that totally makes sense. Yeah, Okay, Crystal.
Speaker 2:Another thing is kind of tag on to that. Some people have had nipple tattooing at their doctor's offices five, six times and nothing has stayed true, but maybe scarring. So that can internally scar them and then they're fearful to trust another provider to offer this service because they've already been scarred. So kind of just explaining to them the techniques are different. We always assess everyone's skin and their scar and you know the skin integrity can play a huge factor in pigment absorption. But to have to go through this process six times and nothing to show for it is really sad. So once we're able to tattoo them and give them a new result, that's a game changer for them.
Speaker 3:Well, we want them to understand. It's not their fault, it's something they did I think sometimes they internalize it and think that it's something that they didn't do right with the aftercare or with their particular skin and it was probably just user error and correct pigment choice.
Speaker 1:Okay, good point. So can you walk us through a little bit about what the process looks like?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So when you come to Perky you got two perky nurses will always consult you first, whether it be virtual or in person or the phone. We always want to know a little bit about your history because we want to make sure we're proceeding safely and in the right time and that your skin is ready. For example, if you finish radiation yesterday, you're probably not ready to have your nipple tattoos just yet, and that's something that maybe a traditional tattooist wouldn't acknowledge or appreciate. So we always want to make sure is your skin ready? Are you on any meds that could hinder things? So there's a full assessment that we do.
Speaker 2:But then you come in one of us will do your tattoo session. You'll be part of the whole process. You'll help us pick size, shape, detail, work that you want, don't want. Do you want an inverted nipple? Do you want just like a really clean nipple? We will ask you questions about nipples that you never thought that you would be asked before and you're going to be like what. But we'll show you examples to kind of help guide you. But even when it comes to color selection, we're there to give our opinions and, you know, inform you on how we think this color would heal, but essentially it's your body, your toys. You'll be part of that process too. So we'll do the first full session. You'll leave with beautiful tattoos, and then you'd come back for a touch up a few weeks later, and then those results should last you for years to come.
Speaker 1:So I love that there's that process. I am curious do you have a lot of people come and this is a total question that I hadn't even thought about yet but do you have people come from all over the country to get their tattoos from you?
Speaker 2:Thankfully. Yeah, we've had a lot of women travel, even internationally, from different continents, so we're super humbled. That's the world of social media. Instagram has been helpful, google helpful in getting our name out there, and many women know of options that are out there for them.
Speaker 1:So you say that they people have to come back a few weeks later. Does that mean that if people travel there, they're going to either need to stay there or come back?
Speaker 2:Usually so the touch up is about six weeks later. But if we needed to do a six month touch up, no harm, no foul. Whenever they're ready, and with that said, you'll have a beautiful result just after one session. But we always want to provide longevity to your tattoo and we're perfectionists. So if there's any little crispening that we can do, we want to do it and it's included in the fees. So whenever they're ready to come back, we offer that.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's fantastic. One question that I have is I had lymph nodes removed. Are people able to get nipple tattoos, because I know I was told that I couldn't really do any tattoos in the whole quadrant of my body. How does that work when people have lymph nodes removed?
Speaker 3:It's perfectly safe to receive the tattooing to the breast area after you've had a lymph node dissection. Sometimes people have the swelling to the arm. Sometimes the swelling invades the chest area. So if you do have lymphedema to the breast, you would want to be having that evaluated, doing manual lymphatic drainage or whatever your lymphedema therapist or physical therapist is recommending, because that will help with the ink uptake. But it's perfectly safe. The inks we use are it's a line that was created specifically for areola tattooing. It's safe. You can go into an MRI after it. So it doesn't affect anything if you've had surgery there or a lymph node dissection. But, just like I said, if you have, you want to try to manage your lymphedema regardless because that's just better overall so it doesn't get worse. But if it invades the chest area, you would want to be helping relieve that fluid and that swelling before you have a tattoo.
Speaker 1:Okay, good to know. Good to know, yeah, because I was thinking about that. I thought, god, if I can't have a tattoo on anywhere in this whole quadrant, how would I be able to do that on my breast?
Speaker 2:Do you have like a therapist or are you seeing anyone? Okay, so maybe getting clearance. If someone's a little concerned, we can always get a game plan going with the toll team, right? Yeah, for aftercare and things. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I don't have lymphedema. I'm pretty good at where I have a sleeve. I've had three removed from the breast cancer side, one from the other side, and so I have seen a therapist and I am in contact with her in any questions that I have. But you know, I will ask her about that as well. But that's just such a good thing for people to know, because so many people get lymph nodes removed Absolutely, and I didn't even know what lymphedema was. I didn't even know what I couldn't, couldn't do or anything. So I mean, I just bought a hot tub a year ago. A little over a year ago she told me I can't sit in it over past my belly button. Oh yep, that sucks because it's so good for therapy and everything you know anyway. So, okay, go ahead. Did you have something? Yeah, I was going to add on to that A lot of times women who have lymphedema also have had radiation.
Speaker 3:So in those scenarios it's also safe to do the tattooing. We would just assess the skin first and usually you heal longer after the radiation, you wait a little bit longer to get the tattooing and it can make things take differently if you've had radiation. That's the only caveat there. Okay, good to know, very good to know.
Speaker 1:Now I want to get into something a little controversial, and I know that you both have something to say about this. So there's been a lot of controversy on social media about showing images of real breasts that connect to breast cancer and results that you offer. That ends up negatively impacting businesses like yours. Yours is not the first I've seen on this. I've seen it on other Instagram businesses where, like this is not pornography, right, so the accusation is that it's considered to be pornography. The accusation from what Instagram or whatever Can you share with our audience how you handle this type of censorship and how it actually does affect your business? Crystal, if you want to start, yeah, so the first thing that comes to mind is not to be like a feminist or anything, but it's like man.
Speaker 2:If this was a male nipple, would we?
Speaker 3:be in this predicament.
Speaker 2:Anything related to women's health seems to be controversial. That's sad. So what do we do about it? We continue to advocate, we further make Instagram posts. We are constantly appealing them, but women deserve to see, to be able to see their options, what results look like. Because someone can say they offer tattooing all the time. They can say they offer tattooing all day long, nipple tattooing but if you are not able to see their healed results, then that's not fair. I just feel it's so sad that society is so sexualized and now we're trying to make everything robotic when it comes to, like, censorship. So Instagram's using AI sources to kind of scan posts and even when they see the graphic of our flat boob, that's getting censored. It's like come on, guys.
Speaker 3:Yes, this mural here behind us. Sometimes we include it in our social posts and that flags, that little dot there, yeah, just the little painted dot. So our stickers have flagged. We have little boob stickers. It doesn't matter what form of tattooing we put up, it usually flags. I mean, from day one it's been flagging and we agreed mutually that we don't want to let that affect what we want to put out. We still are going to create the posts and hope that we can continue to appeal and appeal and a lot of times after an appeal process they will put it back, but most recently, with this new AI flagging it's been a lot harder and they actually. We tried to get a little shop for any like small merchandise we sell and they are denying us even having a shop on Instagram because of our posts.
Speaker 2:The problem is on Instagram. Their guidelines flat out say that breast cancer awareness post mastectomy posts are allowed, so they're not practicing what they're preaching and that's what's really infuriating. And these women they acknowledge they want to be posted. They want to be able to help someone who's newly diagnosed. That's a way to give them purpose. Right, you want to give your diagnosis purpose and they want to be able to show someone that it's okay. This is what's on the other side. You'll get there.
Speaker 1:And they're not allowing that. Well, and you do bring up a really good point. If this was a man, this would not be happening. Yeah, no harm, no foul. Where is it that it started that men could go around topless and women?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm still trying to figure that out Once I find out.
Speaker 1:I have to tell you guys a super funny story and I think I might have told Courtney I maybe I did yesterday when I was talking to you or wearing. A couple of days ago we were in Costa Rica and this is going to be really fun because I'm going to go back to Costa Rica after I get my nipple tattoos. We were in Costa Rica, my husband and I were, and we were on this catamaran. A beautiful trip. It was super fun. We came back to the condo and our condo was really cute. It was, oh, we had a little garden view and I had a balcony For me.
Speaker 1:I would say that my surgeon for the phase one breast surgery, the breast reconstruction I told him that if I could never have phase two, for whatever reason, I would be so okay with the job that he did. I mean, he did such a phenomenal job and I never thought that I would like my body again and I just love my breasts that he did. I cannot tell you how much I love them, and so I'm a pretty uninhibited person. Anyway, I have been. I mean I'm 56 years old. I've always been pretty uninhibited. I mean I've even gone to nude beaches before, but Tahoe, you know I'm a little bit different now that I'm in my fifties, but I still. I came to a situation where I do love my body now and my husband loves my body.
Speaker 1:So we got home from the catamaran trip, we went out on the balcony and I looked all around the just to make sure no one was there Like it was super private and I put my towel up on the balcony and I took my bathing suit off and walked back in and my husband came out, took his trunks off because we wanted to dry them out on the balcony, right? So we come back in and about 45 minutes later we're sitting at the dinner table and this knock on the door, ring on the doorbell all of a sudden happens. We're like who's that? So my husband went to the door and I kind of heard him talking a little bit in Spanish. I heard him kind of go out into the hallway and talk and little muffled talking. Then he comes back and he goes.
Speaker 1:So, babe, apparently we can't be naked on the balcony. I'm like what are you talking about? And he says well, somehow. He said he showed me this. He says do you speak Spanish? And he said and it was a security guard and he said, yeah, I speak a little bit.
Speaker 1:And he showed him this little text message that said and one of the lines said cannot be naked on the balcony. Oh, wow, and I'm like how on earth? I looked everywhere. No one was there. I swear to God. I mean, I looked in all everywhere, turns out there's a camera, there's a security camera off to the left that literally saw us for two seconds naked. I thought to myself, well, at least I love my body, you know, and then I go there I'll have nipples. Anyway, it was just so funny and I just bring that up because what you two do is so profoundly, incredibly important and people don't understand this. They don't realize this until it's happening to them. And I appreciate the fact that you two have so much knowledge as nurses, as someone who has breast cancer in their family, as women, and you are advocates for all of us, and I just really appreciate that and I think that everyone needs to know about this. Where are you located?
Speaker 2:We are in San Antonio, texas. We're in the medical center here in San Antonio and we're part of like a little medical office. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I like the fact that I'm finding these pockets of people, these professionals, where people understand that there's an option for them to go to, so people can fly to you and you probably have, like, prma referring people to you or, in other places possibly, referring people to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have Dr Potter. She's awesome. She's an Austin. I love her. Yes, she's a huge advocate. We're like fan girls of her. I wanna be her when I grow up.
Speaker 1:I will tell you that I'm a fan girl of hers as well.
Speaker 2:She's really cool and there's a lot of great reconstructive surgeons here in town too that refer. But we just really try to get our name out there as much as possible. A lot of times, through breast cancer organizations, we get referrals. I don't know if you're familiar with the breasties. I am.
Speaker 2:They're a national organization. They are phenomenal with the support that they give the community. Now we started helping them with their Camp Breasty, so you should look that up. That's a fun thing to look up for the community. But little organizations, local ones around town we like to help with. Google's great social media is great for referrals.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and we've done a few pop-ups with a couple of organizations like the Breasties and Shays Warriors Life After Cancer. They're located in the Palm Desert, California area. So both really wonderful organizations and we're very open to doing that, working with organizations to try to get Nipples tattooing to areas where they don't necessarily have it With. Whatever we can within our means, we try to do that. Yeah, there's so many.
Speaker 1:So if I had an organization in my area, we might be able to collaborate and have it Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, we love doing that. Yeah, there's so many women that walk around for years without nipples that we're just complete and they forget about it.
Speaker 3:And then when they realize it's an option again, it's like whoa oh and also on that note, we see a lot of women who have had I don't want to say bad tattooing, but less than desirable outcomes with the tattooing that they've previously had. So we even can refresh something that didn't look as nice. So if there are people, it's not necessarily over for you if you didn't get the result you wanted. If you want to try to correct something that didn't necessarily turn out as nice as you'd like, we call it a perky refresh.
Speaker 1:Oh, I like that, the perky refresh. I love it. So you talked a lot about community stuff, which was actually going to be my next question. How do you guys give back? And it seems like you give back in a myriad of different ways and that even makes you even better, which I just feel like. I'm so excited to know that you two are there. What piece of advice can you give our audience about how to choose a nipple tattoo artist? And I know one of them is don't just go to any old tattoo artist, right? What other questions can they ask? It's kind of like when you go to a surgeon. What questions should you ask someone who you want to do their deep flap surgery? You don't want to go to just any plastic surgeon that can maybe do a deep flap. You want to ask them very pointed questions like how many surgeries have you done with deep flap? What are the success rates for your deep flap? So what can you help us with as far as advice crystal that people should know about?
Speaker 2:I think so when you think about nipple tattooing, how are you getting information on nipple tattooing? It's probably from your plastic surgery office, right? Whether they do it their in-house or they refer out. So if they're doing it in-house, I would definitely ask who's doing it, because we've been there, done that. We started off as nurses who had the whole nursing role from pre-op, post-op phone calls, clinic to nipple tattooing. So nipple tattooing was something that was thrown in there. Right, it's not always the best techniques that are done in doctor's offices. It's not the best machinery ink lines. So be very mindful, ask to see healed results. I think that's really important. And then, if they do refer out, who do they refer out to and ask to see healed results there? Maybe see their space. Make sure it's a space that you're comfortable getting your tattoo in. Is it a back alley tattoo parlor or is it a place like Perky that's created specifically for you?
Speaker 2:My mom actually she's a survivor she had her first set of tattoos at the doctor's office. She thought it was a really cool service that was offered, but she said it was very painful there and the results were lackluster. So, secondly, she went to a traditional tattooist years later because her tattoos had faded. But going to a tattoo artist parlor it was kind of vulgar for her, truthfully, and it wasn't the best experience.
Speaker 2:The ambience, so many tattoo areas you're just kind of in an open area with beds with lots of dudes who do tattoos right, maybe that would fly for some survivors or pre-vivers, but not for the vast majority. I think they deserve better than that. So, seeing those two scenarios, I knew that something was lacking and that's truly where the idea of Perky came from. But definitely do your research, see healed results, know your worth and take your time. Some women have taken years to finally come to the decision and we're like maybe that was God speaking to you, that you weren't going to get the right result that you needed at that time and you just needed to wait. Great advice.
Speaker 1:How about you, Courtney?
Speaker 3:Yeah, to add on to that, I think, like Crystal said, it's important to check how long they've been doing it and even some we've seen some tattoo artists that put work up that wasn't theirs, so it can be tricky to navigate that but definitely seeing as much before and after work as possible and then making sure that you're included in the process. If they are not letting you select a placement, size, color, if they're not showing you those things and getting your input, it's probably not a good situation. We've seen a couple of ladies who come to us for a refresh and we asked did they include you in any of this? They're like oh no, because we do a lot of measuring and a lot of you know we place it and we move it, the process of mapping. It is very important. So if it's quick and they're not including you, that's not a good way to start the tattoo.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, so when it comes to symmetry and figuring out where to put those areolas, we are very thoughtful.
Speaker 2:We take into account your scar patterns, right? Are you really wanting us to try to camouflage some of the scarring or does it not bother you at all? Getting a proportionate size to your breast volume is also very important Putting them in a place where they would naturally sit not too high, not too low. So there's a lot of thought that goes into it. We've had some ladies come in. They're like, yeah, they plopped me on the chair, they didn't draw anything out and they just went to town, they just started tattooing and I'm like I like, I like this anxiety.
Speaker 3:And Crystal brings up an excellent point you do have scarring there. There's scar tissue, it's a surgical site, so it's important to go to someone that knows how to work with scars or they could further harm you. So that's an important making sure they have that experience, particularly with scars, Cause a lot of parlors will be like, yeah, we'll do the tattoo, but they don't understand what goes into breast surgery and breast reconstruction.
Speaker 1:Well, and, to be honest with you, I would prefer having a woman do my nipples, because they know so much more about you, know what they should look like and things like that. So really, really great advice. I want to let my audience know where they can reach you. On in the show notes I will have your social media handles and your website and your Facebook page. And then also you have some resources that you've provided. Like you were talking about Shay's Warrior and I ended up following them as well Pink Warrior, advocates and Overcomers. Those are the ones I have on there. Is there anything else you might want to add, or is that those are the ones you really like? But if you want to add anything, we can do that too. But I just want to make sure people can reach you and get some advice from you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those are probably the best ways to reach us or our phone number, but we're really good at responding to emails or DMs on social. Like I mentioned, the breasties are also a great organization, and then we have a few reconstructive surgeons that we really care for, if you want us to include those. But I think what else?
Speaker 1:I don't think there's anyone else, I do have the breasties on there as well. Yeah okay, fantastic.
Speaker 3:We love answering any and all questions that we can. Sometimes it's hard to get your thoughts together for your doctor's appointment, or maybe it was such a short appointment time. It's helpful to have someone to kind of chat through things if you're trying to make a decision, so we're always here as a sounding board as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah wonderful, wonderful. I'm excited at the fact that you guys are fan girls of Dr Elizabeth Potter as well. I am supposed to be interviewing her. She had to put it off because she was in OR a couple of days ago, so we are going to be interviewing, and I'm so excited to chat with her. I've talked with her before on the advocacy group because I was part of the CMS coding crisis advocacy group and that's how I actually originally met her, and it was after I had my deep flap that I realized that I almost missed the boat on getting that, because I would never have been able to afford it, and so I'm just so incredibly grateful for her efforts, and so I'm also looking forward to my interview with her. Okay, let's go ahead and wrap this up. Is there anything, crystal, anything else that you would like to say before we wrap up?
Speaker 2:Perky is here for you. Courtney and I are here for you whenever you're ready for nipple tattoos. Even if you don't pursue us, definitely chat with us. We can give you some great education and hopefully lead you down the right path to get beautiful, healed nipple tattoos.
Speaker 1:And you say. A really neat thing here is I appreciate the fact that you guys are also part of that shared decision making in what's best for the woman. So you're there for people even if they don't come to you. But we know that your services are amazing and that just makes you even better. How about you, Courtney?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I think Crystal said it perfectly we offer a number of other services catered to breast cancer survivors. So if anyone's interested, take a look at our website for that, or Instagram. But also the education that we provide, even if you're just looking at us from like a women's health perspective, share with your friends and family so that everybody's in the know about self breast exams and all those things, love it, love it.
Speaker 1:Love it Well. Thank you very much, ladies. I appreciate your time, your energy, your expertise and advice and just thank you for being here and to my audience. Thank you for being here and we will see you on the next episode of Test those Breasts. Bye for now, bye, thank you. Bye, friends. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Test those Breasts. I hope you got some great much needed information that will help you with your journey. As always, I am open to guests to add value to my show and I'm also open to being a guest on other podcasts where I can add value, so please reach out if you'd like to collaborate. My contact information is in the show notes and, as a reminder, rating, reviewing and sharing this podcast will truly help build a bigger audience all over the world. I thank you for your efforts. I look forward to sharing my next episode of Test those Breasts.
