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Test Those Breasts ™️
This podcast by Jamie Vaughn is a deep-dive discussion on a myriad of breast cancer topics, such as early detection, the initial shock of diagnosis, testing/scans, treatment, loss of hair, caregiving, surgery, emotional support, and advocacy.
These episodes will include breast cancer survivors, thrivers, caregivers, surgeons, oncologists, therapists, and other specialists who can speak to many different topics.
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified health care providers, therefore does not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers.
Test Those Breasts ™️
Episode 73: From Diagnosis to Mt. Kilimanjaro: Gillian Lichota's Misson to Empower Women
What if your most challenging moments could lead to your greatest triumphs? On this heartfelt episode of "Test Those Breasts," I sit down with the remarkable Gillian Lichota , founder and CEO of the iRise Above Foundation. Once a successful marine biologist working with institutions like the Smithsonian and NOAA, Gillian's world took a dramatic turn after a breast cancer diagnosis during pregnancy. Her journey, marked by profound reflection and resilience, has inspired her to create a support network for women battling breast cancer.
Gillian's story is one of facing the unthinkable and finding strength in the struggle. From the heartbreak of a miscarriage to the transformative climb of Mount Kilimanjaro post-treatment, she shares how these experiences led to the creation of the "iRise Above Foundation". This nonprofit is dedicated to empowering women through adventurous retreats in stunning locations like Peru, France, Italy, and Switzerland, and aims to foster a community built on strength and resilience.
We also address the realities of living with metastatic breast cancer, exploring the importance of self-care, the emotional highs and lows post-diagnosis, and the journey toward radical remission. This episode is a testament to the power of community, the necessity of self-care, and the unwavering spirit of women who refuse to let cancer define their lives. Join us for an inspiring conversation that celebrates bravery, transformation, and the support that binds us all.
Contact Gillian:
glichota@iriseabovefoundation.org
iRise Above Foundation on Instagram
iRise Above Foundation on Facebook
iRise Above Foundation on YouTube
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I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified healthcare providers, therefore may not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers .
Hello friends, welcome back to the Test those Breasts podcast. I am your host, jamie Vaughn. I'm a retired teacher of 20 years and a breast cancer thriver turned staunch, unapologetic, loud supporter and advocate for others, bringing education and awareness through a myriad of medical experts, therapists, caregivers and other survivors. A breast cancer diagnosis is incredibly overwhelming, with the mounds of information out there, and other survivors A breast cancer diagnosis is incredibly overwhelming, with the mounds of information out there, especially on Dr Google. I get it. I'm not a doctor and I know how important it is to uncover accurate information, which is my ongoing mission through my nonprofit. The podcast includes personal stories and opinions from breast cancer survivors and professional physicians, providing the most up-to-date information. At the time of recording Evidence, research and practices are always changing, so please check the date of the recording and always refer to your medical professionals for the most up-to-date information. I hope you find this podcast a source of inspiration and support from my guests. Their contact information is in the show notes, so please feel free to reach out to them. We have an enormous breast cancer community ready to support you in so many ways.
Speaker 1:Now let's listen to the next episode of Test those Breasts. Hey friends, welcome back to this episode of Test those Breasts. I am your host, jamie Vaughn, and today I am super excited to have my new breasty friend from across the country, jillian Lachota. And Jillian is the founder and CEO of I Rise Above Foundation, a nonprofit US-based organization dedicated to empowering, inspiring and supporting young women to cultivate an outstanding quality of life during and after breast cancer. She is also a mother, marine biologist, mountain climber, adventure travel enthusiast and breast cancer thriver. Well hello, jillian. Welcome to the show. How are you?
Speaker 2:Hi there. Thank you for having me. I'm doing well.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, I know that it is noon your time, it's nine o'clock my time and I'm sitting around a bunch of smoke in our area. I'm in Reno, nevada, and we have a terrible fire going on right now. I'm like I'm doing this. We got to get on here and do an interview with you. We've talked a couple of times and we've also texted, and so we've been in touch, we've had conversations, and now it's time for you to help our audience understand who you are and what your lived experience is. So I would love to be able to start out with sharing with our audience who Jillian was before she found out she had breast cancer. Who are you?
Speaker 2:That's a really interesting question, and it's a bit of a journey that I've been on. This year in particular, I've started writing a memoir essay as part of the Desert to Mountaintops anthology series, and the theme for this anthology is the pilgrimage of motherhood, and so the lead author, jessica Buchanan, reached out to me about writing an experiential essay on my experience with breast cancer in the context of motherhood, and it really kind of forced me to dig deep, to delve deep inside of who I actually am and who I was before. Breast cancer is certainly central to that theme, and so, had you asked me this before I started into that sort of journey of writing, my answer probably would have been a bit different. The process of the writing has been very cathartic, and there's a lot that I've come to realize about who I was before breast cancer, and so I guess you know mostly people start out talking about you know what their profession and what they did, and so, by professional training, I am a marine biologist and I grew up in Canada that's where I'm from and specialized in Arctic marine sciences, and I was really interested in looking at how climate change affects biodiversity, and so that was my focus.
Speaker 2:I ended up in the Washington DC area. I have a research position at the Smithsonian National History Museum Cool, yeah, super cool. So that's what brought me to this area and from there I ended up working for NOAA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, in their climate program office is where I ended up as their chief scientist there, and so I had a really wonderful, fun career path. I have no regrets. It was amazing.
Speaker 2:I saw lots of things and I was a workhorse and I think I felt that I had a lot to prove to who I don't know, but I think very familiar to a lot of women who work professionally, maybe in the sciences, maybe it's in some other career path, but I was definitely burning the candle at both ends. I was working many, many hours per week and traveling, and at that time I didn't have children, so I didn't have the kind of obligations that I currently have. So I didn't really stop to think about how it affected my well-being at that time. I probably could have put more thought into self-care, but I was at that prior to breast cancer. I really was at that prime of my life in terms of my health. I was very active doing triathlons and I love travel, so I was very into traveling all over the world very remote off the beaten path kind of places and then that thing called breast cancer hit, so it changed everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does change everything. You have been a big deal. You have a lot that you have done, and I noticed that you said that you felt like maybe you were trying to prove something to someone. Maybe that was to yourself, maybe that was to some of your colleagues or parents or whoever just someone. And I feel like that's sort of how I was when I was teaching. I had just retired from a 20-year career from teaching social studies and I have a husband who teaches social studies, so all of my entire career I always was trying to prove something to someone. You know, like I knew I was a good teacher. I know that I impacted a lot of students. I loved what I did. I continued my education throughout the whole entire time. I worked my ass off my entire career but always felt like I was trying to prove something to someone. So it's interesting that you said that.
Speaker 1:Okay, so breast cancer hits we know how much that and, by the way, you mentioned also that if I would have asked you that question prior to your experience, your other experience this is why I asked that is because in our survivorship we have more lived experience. That helps us uncover so much more that we never even realized, and I think that's just such a common theme with all of us who have gone through breast cancer. So that's very interesting. What was your diagnosis? What were your treatments like? Can you share all of that with us?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the same day that I found out I was pregnant with my son, I found out I had breast cancer, and that was a real gut punch for me because I had gone through several years of grueling infertility treatments and I'm sure there's people watching who can understand that journey. I thought that was the most difficult thing that I was going to go through. My husband and I we lost a pregnancy in the second trimester, just six months before my breast cancer diagnosis, and that was awful, and it's not something that is talked about very much miscarriages it was never on my radar that that was something that might happen and nobody talked about it. So that was a very isolating experience in and of itself, and so I was overjoyed to find out that I was pregnant, but then also to find out that I had pregnancy-related breast cancer. My dream of becoming a mother was quite literally going to kill me. So I had some very tough decisions to make and I was really grateful that my husband was 100% behind whatever I chose for my body. Thank you, yes, I just had to put that in there Because I'm finding it. The dialogue, the discourse going on right now around the election and women's rights.
Speaker 2:I was in a very, very tricky spot because I had a couple options in front of me. I could abort the pregnancy and that for me would have meant probably never having a child, which really would have broken my heart. I could trust the medical process and my team of doctors and have a mastectomy while pregnant and go through chemotherapy. Or I could do nothing and wait till the end and probably not be around now Because, as you know, having estrogen progesterone positive hurt you.
Speaker 2:Negative breast cancer as your pregnancy, as your child, your fetus is growing inside of you, those things, the estrogen and progesterone increases in your body so it would feed the cancer. So I probably would have died after giving birth or before, who knows. But I chose the second option and that was to receive surgery and treatment while I was pregnant and I had an amazing team of doctors who were so great to me at Johns Hopkins and supportive, and I'm fortunate because it's a teaching hospital and they could do some things that were experimental in terms of how I was going to be put under so that it didn't affect my unborn child. During the surgeries when I had a mastectomy I was actually partly awake for it. I cannot really remember everything, but I have weird details that even just to describe it wouldn't make any sense to anybody. But I'm fortunate because that was made available to me to minimize the risk of another miscarriage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they did a biopsy on my thoracic cap. I had a tumor in my thoracic cavity and they had to put a big old needle in there and they actually did this thing where I was awake, like I was aware and awake. I don't remember all of it, but I was awake during that and it was really bizarre. So I can imagine that you have memories of them being there and having maybe conversation or whatever. It's so such a weird feeling. Yeah, at Johns Hopkins your surgery you had a oncological surgeon and a reconstruction surgeon. What kind of reconstruction did you have?
Speaker 2:If you don't mind me asking, I had a implant put in and then, after my son was born, I elected to have my other breast removed and an implant put in.
Speaker 1:Same doctor, same surgeon yes, yeah, awesome, so, and you're real comfortable with that surgeon. It's always just so good to know who the surgeons are around our country, so that people feel comfortable going to whichever surgeon they want to go to, and because I know that they're not all created equal.
Speaker 2:I know from my day of being diagnosed to when I was being wheeled into the surgical room. There was 11 days. There wasn't much time for me to process any of it, much less do my investigative work to find out who would be the best. I trusted the process and I'm lucky because I ended up with what everyone calls a dream team of doctors that took care of me so.
Speaker 1:I feel fortunate, nice, and then you mentioned your husband and his caregiving. Can you go into that a little bit more? So for me and my husband, he was an amazing caregiver. We did go through some real big bumps, to the point where we really needed to go to therapy, which I'm so lucky to have a partner who is willing to do that, because we know that the last I heard the statistic was about 40% of couples split up with a diagnosis like this. I am so grateful that my husband and I are still together. Our marriage is stronger than ever because we took action and went to therapy and we talk about stuff. So is there anything you'd like to share, like of the lived experience with your husband being a caregiver?
Speaker 2:Well, yes, it's been interesting. I first and foremost will say that I'm really blessed to have married my best friend and I think when life altering circumstances arise like this, where you know it's really hard, it makes all the difference when you have that person to be your rock. We've gone through bumps and, as time has gone on for me because I was originally diagnosed in 2012 and then my breast cancer returned as metastatic in 2017, he was the poor guy my return of breast cancer as metastatic, his mother's cancer developed non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and his dad prostate cancer all in three months time. So it really overwhelmed him and I think, like a lot of people that come from families where they don't talk about the hard stuff, I talk about the hard stuff. So I very much.
Speaker 2:When my second cancer came in, when I developed metastatic breast cancer in 2017, I just completely changed my life around.
Speaker 2:I mean, I was given a 32% chance of living five years at that time and I was like, well, oh hell, no, I got shit to do. I was like, nope, this is going to change. So I really leaned into it and I don't really speak about breast cancer in terms of euphemisms, because it has been, you know, coupled with my journey through motherhood, has been my greatest teacher and it has really broken me open so that I couldn't unpack a lot of things and reset my priorities, and which became very simple very quickly. I felt like I was becoming more spiritually aligned and I mean that from a sense of authenticity and there suddenly became a gap in how I connected with my husband and so fortunately, he was very open to going to therapy and figuring out why he had trouble dealing with the difficult things, so that we could become closer, and it has been really really life-changing to have him be willing to do that, so that we can address the hard things together. I feel really lucky for that.
Speaker 1:That just makes my heart so happy. I wish that everyone would do that. Therapy is not like an evil thing, it's so healthy and we still continue to go. We've been going for a year and a half now, I would say, and now it's like once a month we had to talk about a lot of elephants in the room and we even go when we're totally great and sometimes he'll be like well, do we really need it anymore? I go, babe, I don't want to go only when we have problems. You know, I want to be able to celebrate with our therapist our marriage and she loves us, we love her.
Speaker 1:So thank you for sharing that. That's just so profound and because that connection, no matter how strong of a marriage people have, sometimes that connection is broken in certain ways because dealing with those things and you had gone through, you both had gone through a miscarriage and then getting pregnant again and then finding out on the same day that you have breast cancer, those are very difficult, yeah, very tragic, very tragic. Well, you have done some great things in your survivorship and I know that you have the I rise foundation. Can you share with our audience what you're doing in your survivorship and how that is impacting you and all the other women that you have involved.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd be happy to. The first time around in after 2012, when I was diagnosed with breast cancer, once I was finished with my surgeries and my treatment and so forth, I set my sights on wanting to climb Mount Kilimanjaro and I felt it was a difficult thing for me to do and it surprised me because my body had completely changed. From being on all you know my surgeries, the treatments themselves, I bloomed up, you know, with inflammation and I was in pain all the time and you know, your body just changes and I was not used to that. I was used to going for a run and playing sports and, you know, just being very active. And then I had to realign my body and my mind and I had to go at it quite slowly. But I said to my oncologist because when we moved into that six months, you know, see, in six months I was like wait, what? You're not giving me anything else, like setting me're, setting me free, like what's going on here? I noticed that, like when I reached out to wellness experts to kind of help me train or get better, as soon as I said I was recovering from breast cancer, it was kind of like I was radioactive in some ways and I was like, okay, what is this about? Anyways, I did have a couple wellness experts really support me through that period of trying to make my body stronger and figuring out what foods worked and really help with some positive psychology, which I think is really the foundation for everything.
Speaker 2:So I showed up at my six-month appointment after I had summited Mount Kilimanjaro and I brought my laptop in and showed my oncologist and she was like you look great, what happened? And she's like, oh my goodness. And she didn't think I was really going to do it. When I told her like I'm going to climb a mountain, she's like, okay, whatever. And so she asked me at that time Jillian, do you mind if I give your contact information to some women in our clinic who are young women, you know, and they're really struggling. And I said, yeah, sure, she thought it would be inspirational for them to connect with me.
Speaker 2:So they did, all five women connected and they wanted to know how I did that. They said they wanted to do that and then could you help me to do what you just did? And so it planted a seed in my brain because I was thinking to myself, if there's just this like small batch of women in a clinic at my hospital that are, you know, really wanting to live a different life than they did before. There must be a lot more out there, and so that planted a seed for me for starting the I Rise Above Foundation, which our goal is to really help women during and after breast cancer.
Speaker 2:Young women live an outstanding life, and we provide them with integrated tools that are age appropriate and resources so that they can empower themselves to heal in moving forward, and that takes on many different forms, and so I'm really proud to say that all five of those women have been through our programs. They've been on our retreats, they've been on some of our adventure trips and they're thriving, and I feel so grateful every time I hear an update from them how they're doing. It's just so different than when I first met them, and so I'm grateful for that. The women that I met within this community, they're my best friends. They're absolutely my best friends.
Speaker 1:Well, amy Benosi is the one who connected us and I had interviewed her quite some time back when she came out with her book and we've just been in touch ever since and just a wonderful woman I know. She connected you and I together and she went to Costa Rica I think that's the one she went on, and what a great adventure she I mean it just she obviously loved it and I'm just so grateful that something like this is out there for our community. With Test, those Breasts, as you know, is a nonprofit now and I've got a website, testthosebreastsorg. I house a lot of resources. I have a resource page where anyone I interview that I feel can help our community.
Speaker 1:I always ask them can I please put your website and any information on that resource page? So I'm asking you now may I do that? Yeah, and we have them split up into like categories so that when people go in there, you know we have a newly diagnosed category, we have just all surgery categories. So I'll be putting that on there right away, as, in fact, so that when people go on there they can reach out to you. When is your next adventure?
Speaker 2:The next adventure is oh my goodness, I think we're in 2025. So we've completed our retreats and our adventure trips for this year. We go to Peru and Rainbow Mountain at the end of April in 2025.
Speaker 2:And so anyone who's listening. There's a couple spots still remaining and I'll say what is so wonderful, it's a wonderful problem to have. Our retention is so high, so we get repeat participants. We have a whole group of women who it's their annual thing. They want to come back because they come together. And so the Costa Rica trip, I think we had 14 women and I believe eight of them were returned.
Speaker 1:Is Amy coming back?
Speaker 2:Yes, she's coming. We're also doing more of like an active hiking trip in September this time next year to Tour de Mont Blanc in France, italy and Switzerland.
Speaker 1:So fun. Well, I mean, I'm a backpacker. I was not able to backpack for a few years, obviously a couple of years anyway. The last backpack trip that I had gone on before breast cancer was in 2021. We backpacked the Ruby Mountains and it was about 38 miles. It was brutal. It was, but I can. I did it and I hadn't been backpacking. I went on a couple prior to that honor anniversary, but I hadn't been before that for like 20, you know, or 15 years or whatever. But I just went on a backpacking trip a couple of months ago for the first time since breast cancer and I was able to carry my pack and we went 19 miles. That was really good for me to be able to see if I could actually do it, and so very adventurous.
Speaker 2:Well, it's interesting because what I like to do in designing these whether it's the retreats or the adventure trips I like to get women outside of their comfort zones, right A little bit, push the boundary a little bit, and so I've not once had a situation where a woman said that was too much for me Never. It's always like, ah, can we do that again? Like just so excited, you know, like down a rock face. For example, we were on NBC in what was that 2021? Came with us to Utah and it was like a big climbing trip and it was really funny because the producer was deathly terrified of heights, so she had to rappel down a rock face and didn't love it.
Speaker 1:Did you put out a video about that? Was there a video about that? About that, her being deathly scared, but did it anyway? Was that something with Kristen Dahlgren? I thought I saw a video. Kristen was on that particular trip?
Speaker 2:Yes, so I think that was part of the end of the Today Show, the NBC piece.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, yes, I remember. But I mean it's so cool that it was all captured on video. You know all of them. I thought that was so cool. I love it when we get out of our comfort zone. I mean it's not easy, but yeah, by the end of it you're like holy cow. I did that. I actually did that.
Speaker 2:And you can get through breast cancer. I mean, we can do anything, it's for breast cancer.
Speaker 1:I mean we can do anything we can. I just had Mohs surgery on my leg. I've got these little, these squamous skin cancers popping up on my body from you know stupid things I did when I was a kid. I don't know if you know what Mohs surgery is. I don't. It's the name of someone M-O-H-S. It's when they go in and they take out a layer, go and test it, come back, take out however many layers until the cancer is gone. So by the time you leave the office the cancer is gone.
Speaker 1:But it left this enormous hole like a big bomb went off on my leg. I looked at it and usually I would be like you know, it's so gross. But then it wasn't like that and I thought to myself well, you know, I've seen a lot of gross things as far as this breast cancer goes. You know tubes hanging out, fluids, big old incisions and all that. No wonder I'm okay with looking at it. But I sent it to my husband. He's like holy cow.
Speaker 1:It was very traumatic and it takes a really long time to heal and stuff like that. So we can do big things, we can do hard things, great. Anyway. Well, I just am really happy that we got to connect and we got to talk about I Rise because that's what I was going to ask you. I'm 56 years old, going on 57 years old, I'm not a young spring chicken. Do you have like an age group of people that go? Or is there like because you always talk about young women and I feel young, I still feel like I'm in my probably 30s, but what does that look like? Who?
Speaker 2:can go Well. I recently had a conversation with my breast friends about the fact that you know I'm approaching 50. So I'm no longer a spring chicken either. But we have women. The youngest we had in one of our wellness programs was 24. And there was a long history of genetic breast cancer in her family. And wow, it was a lot. There were a lot of questions that are unique, challenges and then associated needs that someone like herself faces. Who is openly gay? And questions about I don't have a partner, do I preserve my eggs? What do I do? So I think that the needs of the young community are different than the post-menopausal counterparts within our community, spousal counterparts within our community, but there are women your age, my age, but it's okay.
Speaker 1:Come join us. I'd love to have you. Yeah, oh my gosh, I would love it. But I also think that there is a space for people my age and your age to be with people her age yes, I remember very, very well being her age and into my late twenties listening to older women talk about cause. I was always like, oh, am I ever going to find a partner? Blah, blah, blah. And they're like, oh my gosh, yes, you, will, you just be open to it? And little did I know. You know, when I was 34, I met the love of my life. I understood what they were talking about. So I feel like there is a really important space for older and younger women to be together. I got most of my advice from older women. I am so grateful for that. So I'm glad that you can mix those together. I am actually really, really interested in going to Peru.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm joining and you just underscored something that I really want to mention is that I started IRISE the concept of IRISE prior to being diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer, and I've intentionally included not only early stage breast cancers but also metastatic. Within our community, I felt like when I was diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer, I felt marginalized, and I think that we as a community who are thriving being alive with metastatic breast cancer and not dying from it, have a lot of wisdom to offer. I think there's a lot of teaching moments that can be shared both ways, so it's been really important to me, even though I've gotten some heat from the metastatic community. I'm like why are you not focusing on this? Well, I wasn't always metastatic, so I think there's a lot of knowledge to be shared with early stage breast cancers, and so that is my goal to be inclusive.
Speaker 1:I love that because my friend, natalie Stevenson, here in Reno she has the nonprofit Cancer Community Clubhouse is living with metastatic breast cancer and she does talk about it's important for people to understand it. It's important for people to understand too, that you can be living with metastatic breast cancer and being active, an active part of community, having friendships and being happy and at the same time, having this difficult time over here, over on the other side, because it is a struggle. And I remember when I was deemed disease-free, most people, including my husband, had this thought that well, everything is going to go back to normal now You're done with that, you've gotten through all that Onward and that's just not how it works. I still struggle, I have PTSD when I have to go into my oncologist, I have sent PTSD. I have just so much. And it's really hard for people to understand that when you're living with metastatic breast cancer, people have to allow people to struggle, I would say, but it's really hard for them to understand. So I really think that bringing that awareness is really important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm really happy to share that. I'm in what they call radical remission. So I was diagnosed in early 2017 and here we are at the end of 2024. This is my sixth year of no evidence of disease in my body and I feel really grateful for that. And so I really, really encourage women to believe the diagnosis but challenge the prognosis, and I think there's a lot of women who have the metastatic diagnosis who maybe aren't encouraged in a way to really challenge that the way they could, and you know, we want to be that support for them within our community to do that.
Speaker 2:And so in this last trip to Costa Rica, the restorative retreat, there were three of us and all of us are in this radical remission and it's wonderful and it's beautiful and it teaches us a lot about being in the here and now, you know, and gratitude for the smallest of things.
Speaker 2:And in this experiential essay that I've just completed for submission, I talk a lot about what it means to be at peace, and to me that's wholeness. And so there's the yin and the yang in the world. You can have absolute joy and also grief. You and I were talking about this before this past weekend. We had to say goodbye to our sweet dog of more than 10 years who grew up with my kids, and it was absolutely the most gut wrenching pain to watch my children just hurt so badly, saying goodbye to their best friend, and then we could sit around afterwards and laugh and look at photos and just be so joyful for the love that we got to experience and share together. So that's life. It's the wholeness and embracing and sitting with things of grief and the pain and the sorrow it's all temporary. If you can hold both close to your heart, I think you're going to be okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, your dog's name was Juno. Yeah, yes, you and I've had these conversations. Right before our call. I talked to you about our dog, delilah, who we lost last November and also was a German shepherd dog, which we love German shepherds and it is.
Speaker 1:I grieved very hardcore because Delilah got me through the death of my mother in October of 2019. Like, she was there for me all the time and then, of course, she got me through cancer. She would be sitting in my bathroom with me and in my healing room but my bathroom when I was sick from chemo. I'm grateful that she held on until after the cancer, because we thought we were going to lose her during the cancer. She had gotten sick, but then she lived. I was grateful that she held on until after the cancer because we thought we were going to lose her during the cancer. She had gotten sick, but then she lived. I was grateful that she held on until after all that happened and I'm so grateful that she was there.
Speaker 1:I'm really, really sorry to hear about Juno and I'm so glad that you were able to be there as a family to sit in the grief, you know, and go through all that together, because you're right, it is. It's part of life and we need to know that it's okay to cry and grieve and all of that. You're such a wonderful person. I'm so glad that we connected and I love our conversations. You and I are very, very much aligned on a lot of things and I'm glad that you have your two children and that that part really worked out well for you.
Speaker 1:My question to you you gave some great advice for people who are living with metastatic cancer or going through whatever active cancer right now and even after being deemed disease-free. One of the questions I really like to ask is there are some things that, in hindsight, I think about before I got breast cancer that I wish I would have known, like I wish I would have known. Just to go into the doctor when I felt those zingers in my breasts, those burning sensations in my breasts. I wish I would have known more about the process of breast cancer. All of that. There's so many things. Is there anything that you might want to kind of give advice to people who've never even been diagnosed?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question and it's something I think about all the time. Having a daughter, that would be to listen to your body and maybe slow down a little bit, make time for self-care, because I think when you don't honor your body as a temple whether it be your mind, your spirit, your physical being I think that's where dis-ease can start to manifest. So I think it's really important to make you as a whole person a priority and make time for it. The job will still be there, the laundry will still be there. Just make time for it, because I guarantee it's going to make you a better mother, a better spouse, a better friend, a better employee, a better person in this world, because you show up differently, and how you show up is what matters, that's what sends ripples through the universe, and so I think that's important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that so many of us are so busy all the time Like women in general are multitaskers. We do so many things, we take care of people. We put our own personal stuff over here to do this and it sucks that sometimes something like this has to happen before we've like wake up. You know, come on I am now when I get too busy, because even though I'm retired, I still get too busy. I work with a lot of grassroots people here. I'm always busy doing stuff. I've got the podcast, you know just all kinds of things. But I'm really good at saying no now, and I'm really good at saying no now, and I'm really good at saying you know what, Jamie, you have far too many things on your calendar. So I'm really good at moving things around. If I know that I should, I will move things around and I will take that time to relax. I'm really good at relaxing. So that's just one thing that came out for me is that I'm good at that now.
Speaker 2:It took having being diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer for me to really get that. After my first diagnosis, after I completed treatment and I climbed the mountain and everything, I went right back to being a workhorse and having the stress of the workplace and I didn't learn my lesson the way I wish I did, but I'm exactly right where I need to be now. So it's kind of a moot point, but it's important to have boundaries, because when you say yes to something, you inherently say no to something else. So making space for the things that are important for self-care or that matter to you is really critical for your wellbeing.
Speaker 1:I believe it is it is. And when you get into your fifties we are able to say no and put things aside. I always preface and ask if I'm going to ask somebody to do something, and I just did this at the pride festival last week. I always say it's okay if you say no.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then I ask, and then they feel like they can say no if they want to yeah. And then I ask, and then they feel like they can say no if they want to yeah, and I think that's really important for us to understand, and I bet you you get way more honest responses that way I do, because I want people to say that to me.
Speaker 1:I want to feel like I can say no, I want to feel like I can have boundaries. So I love communicating with strong women like you, because we all sort of are in this the know of some things that we didn't know before, and so I just really appreciate your being here and I am going to look at that trip because I really feel like it's time for me to do something like that.
Speaker 2:Join us. We have an amazing group of women assembled Love it. So it's going to be really wonderful.
Speaker 1:Love it. Well, in the show notes to my audience. I want them to know that I'm going to be putting your social media handles on there, your website and any other resources that you would like to put on the show notes. Just let me know and I will put that in there.
Speaker 2:All right, so that you would like to put on the show notes. Just let me know and I will put that in there, all right, so is there anything you'd like to say before we wrap up? I'm just grateful for this opportunity and so happy to connect and have a new friend, and I hope that others out there reach out and want to join our I Rise Above community, because we're always welcoming new people so Awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, I do want to let you know. Always welcoming new people so Awesome, well, I do want to let you know. I want to just real quickly say that test those breasts was just nominated as one of the top podcasts in Reno. I didn't even know anybody. I didn't know anybody nominated me, and my husband was reading it and I was like, oh my God, so I want to keep this thing going. And so, to my audience, just please, please, please, go to your favorite platform to listen and rate and review this podcast. I would really want to keep it going. So thank you for being here, jillian, I appreciate it. And to my audience, thank you for being here and we will see you all next time on the next episode of Test those Breasts. Bye for now.
Speaker 2:Bye-bye.
Speaker 1:Friends, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Test those Breasts. I hope you got some great much needed information that will help you with your journey. As always, I am open to guests to add value to my show, and I'm also open to being a guest on other podcasts where I can add value, so please reach out if you'd like to collaborate. My contact information is in the show notes and, as a reminder, rating, reviewing and sharing this podcast will truly help build a bigger audience all over the world. I thank you for your efforts. I look forward to sharing my next episode of Test those Breasts those breasts.
