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Test Those Breasts ™️
This podcast by Jamie Vaughn is a deep-dive discussion on a myriad of breast cancer topics, such as early detection, the initial shock of diagnosis, testing/scans, treatment, loss of hair, caregiving, surgery, emotional support, and advocacy.
These episodes will include breast cancer survivors, thrivers, caregivers, surgeons, oncologists, therapists, and other specialists who can speak to many different topics.
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified health care providers, therefore does not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers.
Test Those Breasts ™️
Episode 77: Empowering Global Breast Health Education w/ Dr. Corrine Ellsworth-Beaumont of Know Your Lemons Foundation
Join me as I sit down with Dr. Corrine Ellsworth-Beaumont , the remarkable founder of the Know Your Lemons Foundation, who has turned the world of breast health education on its head. With a unique approach using lemons as a metaphor, Dr. Beaumont breaks down barriers and misconceptions surrounding breast cancer symptoms and screenings. Her journey from a childhood on a potato farm in Idaho to creating a global movement is both inspiring and enlightening. Discover how personal loss fueled her passion to educate millions and why her creative strategies have made breast health education accessible across 70 countries.
Our discussion uncovers the creative genius behind employing lemons as a universal symbol to communicate the 12 signs of breast cancer. Dr. Beaumont shares how this simple yet powerful image went viral and became a beacon of hope and awareness worldwide. From tackling societal taboos to collaborating with healthcare providers and survivors, we explore the impactful initiatives she has spearheaded, including the innovative Know Your Lemons App and the World Breast Alliance. Learn how these efforts have empowered individuals and communities to prioritize their breast health and foster global partnerships aimed at education and awareness.
Are you interested in becoming a "Lemonista"? Click here to find out more! Become a Lemonista!
Contact Dr. Beaumont:
corrine@knowyourlemons.org
Know Your Lemons at Work Program
Shop Know Your Lemons
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I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified healthcare providers, therefore may not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers .
Well, hello friends, welcome back to this episode of Test those Breasts. I am your host, jamie Vaughn, and today I am so excited to have my new friend and partner, really, dr Corinne Ellsworth Beaumont. She is a pioneering communication designer and the visionary founder and CEO of the Know your Lemons Foundation, a global charity dedicated to revolutionizing breast health education. Her creative solution, using lemons as a metaphor for breasts to teach about symptoms, screening and early detection, to overcome taboo fear and literacy issues that have held back breast cancer awareness for decades.
Speaker 1:Since starting the foundation with her own savings in 2017, her work has reached 1.85 billion people, helping to save many lives worldwide. This includes the award-winning Know your Lemons app, a campaign in 42 languages, a volunteer breast health educator program and the World Breast Alliance, the Know your Lemons partnership network of hospitals, governments and the top breast cancer nonprofits in over 70 countries. In addition to her groundbreaking work, corinne has been actively involved in the international panels, such as the WHO Global Breast Cancer Initiative, and has been featured as a speaker at prestigious events like the United Nations Conference. Her TED Talk showing her innovative approach to using design in healthcare received a standing ovation. Beyond her professional achievements, corinne enjoys travel adventures with her daughter and hiking with her fluffy dog Daisy. Well, hello, corinne, how are you? I'm great.
Speaker 2:So excited to be here.
Speaker 1:Me too. You have such an impressive bio. I know that people can find out more about you on your website, which I'm going to feature in the show notes, but you've got quite a story and I want to let my audience know. I've been following you for a while and I really didn't even know much about you. I just followed you on Instagram your lemons and I didn't really look too far into it. What I did know was had everything to do with education about.
Speaker 1:You know breast cancer and and the signs of breast cancer and stuff like that, and I've shared your stuff before. But one day I was just sitting around and I'm like I'm going to look further into this company, this foundation, and so I went to your website and I realized that you, this is big like. This is a big, big deal, a big movement, and so I was so intrigued with that that I went into the education part and went through the curriculum, the course, to become a lemonista. So you have lemonistas deployed, if you will, all around the world teaching other people about breast cancer and the importance of early detection, the 12 signs of breast cancer, which is like I did not even as a breast cancer survivor, I did not even know. There were 12 signs, and the further I was looking into the, one of the reasons I decided to go through is because you have quite a story about why you started this foundation, and so and I'll kind of talk a little bit more about what I found out as we're talking along.
Speaker 1:But welcome to the show. I'm so excited to see you. I would love for you to share number one with our audience who you are like. Who? If your friends were like who's Corinne, you know, or your family, what would they say?
Speaker 2:So I was born and raised on a potato farm in Idaho and have very creative, entrepreneurial parents. So my dad is a farmer and he also invented these machines for dairies, so he has a manufacturing business. A lot of farmers have a winter business because you can't farm in the winter in Idaho. You can't farm in the winter in Idaho, um. And then my mom is a musician, uh, so I grew up with piano lessons, uh, being taught from afterschool until the evening nearly every day. Um, and so I think, growing up, you know, in the countryside there's lots of room and and space to explore. I, I was really raised with this entrepreneurial mindset and, um, you know, thinking that you can kind of do anything. So, uh, that that is really useful when you're an entrepreneur to be able to have kind of that sense of, well, I'm going to try it out and see if this works. So, um and uh, I ended up, uh, getting my master's in graphic design.
Speaker 2:Uh, and as I was starting that program is when I lost my grandmother to breast cancer, and actually that was the second grandmother I'd lost to breast cancer. My, my dad's mother, um, graduated this life when he was 12 and he was the second grandmother I'd lost to breast cancer. My dad's mother graduated this life when he was 12, and he was the middle child of five kids, and that, you know, obviously made a big impact on his life and you know that has knock-on effects. So I never met my paternal grandmother, but I knew my maternal grandmother and so after that happened I was starting to think I think this might be a health condition I need to know more about. So I was in my early twenties at the time and there really wasn't any information out there. You know, in school we talk about every part of the body except breasts, right? So there wasn't anything I could rely on of. Oh well, in school this is what we learned about breast cancer.
Speaker 2:So I ended up going to a cancer center in Salt Lake that has a really big patient education library. So I turn up this. You know young 20 year old saying hi, I want to know more about breast cancer. And I said, well, we just don't get people your age coming in here asking questions. So let's know I had had these questions when I came in. I wanted to know if I was at a higher risk for breast cancer, I wanted to know when I should start getting screened and I wanted to know what a cancerous lump felt like, because the only thing I'd really heard was check for a lump. That was kind of the only breast health education message I'd ever come across up until that point. And so I was looking through all these leaflets and these websites and I ended up having a lot more questions than I had going in.
Speaker 2:Then I'm leaving that I did going in and I realized that you know, as a graphic designer, this information wasn't designed in a way that was really easy to to digest or engaging, you know. So we've all been there. We we go to a doctor's appointment and we see all these pamphlets on different health conditions and we see like a two-year-old people magazine and we will pick the two-year-old people magazine and we will pick the two-year-old people magazine. Like, celebrities are still together in that issue and you know that they're not together anymore, but you're still going to read that over some really boring pamphlet that is telling you about something related to your health that's even based around maybe the reason why you're at that doctor's office.
Speaker 2:And so I thought why can't it be that design is used to make this interesting? Why is it that no one has really tried to improve the way that we communicate and learn about breast cancer by making it visually engaging and, you know, piquing people's curiosity. So that's really where it started, because at that time of losing my grandmother was when I was starting my master's in graphic design and it was a three-year program and I needed to come up with a project that I'd be working on for the next three years. So as I did that, I thought, you know I could do it on breast cancer. That would be really interesting. So that's that's where, you know, my, my, my passion started was this was something that was personal to me because of my family. I was interested in it for myself and realized that there was this gap that wasn't being met. And then I had this skill of design and I thought how can I bridge this gap with my skill?
Speaker 1:So this is who you've been all along Like. You have had that interest for such a long time and along with your design experience along with your design experience and you've had other personal experience with breast cancer that also inspired you to take this further. Can you share a little bit about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so after I finished my master's degree and I'll kind of explain how I came up with this lemons idea. So for those of you listening, the work I do is very visual. So I would highly suggest going to knowyourlemonsorg to see what I'm about to talk about, because it will make a lot more sense and I'm sure this will be in the show notes. But in order to so, there are a couple of barriers that keep people from engaging with breast health information, and it's the reason why we don't talk about it in school. Number one breasts are associated with sex. So there are all these taboos around talking about anything dealing with breasts. And so the second one is cancer is often associated with death. Cancer is often associated with death. And so when you've got breasts associated with sex and cancer associated with death, you've got sex, death that you're working with and and you have to find a way of separating those things out. And then the third thing is time. We're bombarded with so many messages. It can be really easy for things like you should be better about your health those kinds of messages to not really make it to the to the top of of what we're, what we're seeing, what we're paying attention to. So I knew that I needed a way of being able to show breasts without using breasts. And I was actually I was actually sitting in church one day, uh, thinking about what I could use for breasts, um, and, and the idea came to me that lemons could be a good object. And I'm like that's true, because like lemons, like a lemon peel has kind of like skin, like like pores, um, and then lemons have nipplesipples, and then I could picture in my mind like cutting a lemon, you know, navel to navel, and it looks like breast anatomy and um, so I thought this could be like a really interesting thing. And I'd also spent some time shadowing at an OBGYN office and also went to a screening center to understand that process of mammograms and things like that. I remember talking to the technician and asking her what does a cancer slump feel like? And I said does it feel like a grape? And she says, yeah, it can be that size. And I said, no, like, is it squishy? Or she said, oh no, it's usually hard like a nut. And as I was thinking about this, this lemon metaphor, all of a sudden it clicked A lemon seed is also what a cancerous lump can feel like, and so that that's when that metaphor clicked for me, and leading up to that I'd been doing this.
Speaker 2:I wanted to illustrate the myths of breast cancer and there were like 42 myths I could find, and so I was. I was getting all different kinds of objects to illustrate it, so I was using jugs and cones and melons and all kinds of kind of euphemisms I could do so. I 'd already done a lot of work visually to kind of look at all these different do so I had already done a lot of work visually to kind of look at all these different objects. But I knew from the beginning that I wanted a metaphor that would work globally, cause I knew if I did something like milk jugs, that milk jugs would look different in different countries and people would say, oh, that's not as familiar to me. So I knew I wanted something that naturally occurred and that didn't already have a connotation that could be misleading. So like, for example, melons are referring to size, and so I didn't want that to be part of the metaphor, because then people could mistakenly think that big breasts is what we're using to explain who needs to be concerned about breast cancer and so um so. So lemons were great because lemons are not associated with sizing, um and so.
Speaker 2:So after I, I designed the 12 signs of breast cancer. Um, that's also an interesting story. So I knew that from my research that there were a dozen. And so I thought what to show one thing at a time, 12 times, is too much for our brains to kind of focus on. So I knew I needed to pull all of these together in a group and I thought what is a familiar dozen I'm like? Well, a carton of eggs. That's really easy to look at a carton of eggs and say, oh, it's a dozen, in the rest of the world it's 10, but they've forgiven me on this. And so I thought, okay, what I need to do is be able to have lemons inside an egg carton. But the thing is, a lemon is much bigger than an egg and that's not going to fit inside an egg carton.
Speaker 2:And when I walked into Walmart that day, they had miniature egg size lemons for sale. Oh my gosh, I've only ever seen that one other time in my life, right? So I walk in and here are all these mini lemons. So I go and I buy like a carton of eggs, and then I get you know about 25 lemons, because I wanted to make sure I had a lot of variety and, you know, making sure they were all like symmetrical if I could, and all that. So then I ended up putting the lemons into the egg carton and photographing that in a windowsill, and that image that I took a picture of with the best camera I could in 2001 is still the image that is being used today. It's been modified and adjusted over time, but that's the original image. So after I designed that campaign that showed the 12 signs of breast cancer, I did visuals using lemons to show anatomy, different things like that.
Speaker 2:Then that's when I ended up deciding to move to the UK to get a PhD in global communication, and after I finished my PhD, I was teaching entrepreneurship at a university in London and then that's when I lost my childhood friend to breast cancer and I just thought I can't let this be a project anymore.
Speaker 2:This needs to be a charity and I need to focus my time on this and really work on how can we get this campaign out there, because the symptoms I had shown on the 12 signs were symptoms that my friend had, that she didn't know to report, and so I thought, if I can't even educate my friends fully, um, then then what good is all the work that I've done to build this? So that's when I decided to quit my job and use my savings, um to start the charity full time. I had just, uh, been through a divorce and was raising a 18 month old Um, so you would think none of this was great timing to leave your job, but I just knew that I had to take that leap of faith and and get this going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you definitely had a, had a calling and I'm really sorry to hear about your friend and that's that's pretty profound. I do want to let people know that this is going to be on YouTube, so I'm going to show a picture up here of your design and on the Know your Lemons website it's on the first page and it's just brilliant Because, like I said, as a breast cancer survivor, I I personally didn't even know there were 12. So this was very eyeopening for me when I was going through the training um, which the training is absolutely brilliant and it's understandable and it's quirky, fun, cute, pretty pretty. All of those visually it's visually appealing and the way that you, you know, bring about the understanding of why early detection is so important. So I was stage two and that really made me realize I actually caught it fairly early, but I could have caught it earlier in the year had I had the understanding of what the signs were, because I knew I had signs.
Speaker 1:I had two signs and so, anyway, that was just really really fascinating to me to be able to learn that and, as you know, with this um, with this podcast, I I really try to educate people on early detection and making sure that if you feel something that seems off or looks off, to make sure that you're going and getting it checked right away and it's not like people, you're going to be a hypochondriac or anything like that it is important to go and get that checked out. I could have caught it, you know, at stage zero or one or whatever. So I want to get into the campaign and how it is that it evolved, into these global audiences, Because there are so many Lemonistas out there and you are able to track how many people are being educated every day. How did that all happen?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the campaign ended up going viral in 2017. Um, so that was about six months after I'd I'd left my job, six to nine months after I'd left my job, and what had happened was there was a game going around Facebook saying put a heart on someone's wall but don't tell them what it's for. And then, when they ask you what it's for, tell them it's for breast cancer awareness. And so there was a woman in California that had been diagnosed with breast cancer and she was getting lots of hearts on her wall, um, from family and friends, and you know. So she says what's this for? And I'm like it's for breast cancer awareness. And she's like. So she decided to do this public post, um, responding to her family and friends saying you might've noticed I'm not putting a heart on anyone's wall, and the reason for that is hearts do nothing for breast cancer awareness. She says I knew I had a symptom of breast cancer because I saw an image like this. I had a symptom of breast cancer because I saw an image like this, and she shared the 12 signs of breast cancer image I designed and it got like 60,000 shares in a week, and the press watches to see which public posts are trending, and so there was a small magazine that ran that story.
Speaker 2:And then there are media outlets that look at smaller media outlets to see what stories are trending with them, and then what they do is they replicate those stories. So they kind of grab that article, they changed the title, they changed the author and they hit print. So no one had ever talked to me. So this first story that got shown was not actually that accurate, because they were kind of making some guesses and things like that. And so it was really interesting to see kind of the press and media works. Is that actually no one was coming to me to ask things until it got to the big networks. So, like the BBC, they don't copy someone's article, they like do the interview, they do their diligence, things like that. And then, so you know, cnn talked to me, um, some press in Germany, et cetera. So that was really eyeopening to kind of see who does their homework versus who just copies other people's articles.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's called circular reporting. Thank you.
Speaker 2:And so. So for about three weeks solid, I was getting inundated with interview requests and you know things, over email or people wanting to talk to me. Um, I appeared on BBC breakfast, which is like the equivalent of like the today show. Um and uh. You know they were saying tell us about this image, like why is this image so popular? And I just said, you know, for a long time we've been telling people that you should know your body, we've been saying you should do self-exam, but we've never been specific as to what you need to be looking at filling for. And this image is easy to share. It's not a generic, you know, do your self-exam, pink ribbon type of thing. It's actually, you know, quite useful and specific. And so it was getting shared a lot because people are like this is new information and this is interesting and I want other people to know that. So, because it was so, so saw off, so, so saw, after that I could start to see it getting passed on to other countries, and so one day I'd have people asking me questions from Peru and I'm like oh, the campaign's trending in Japan right now and you can kind of see it kind of move through. So that was kind of the initial big thing that got the campaign on the map, but people didn't know that there was a charity behind it. They were just liking the image and sharing it, um, and so that that was how that kind of initial um popularity began and um. And then I was having requests to have it in different languages and so I started working with different people to get it translated in different languages and designing that. And then um, and now we've we've got a really good program of of how people can use it, and so we've got like the Lamanista training course, where anybody can come along and spend a couple hours to get trained and educated, and then we give education tools and we've got a global platform where people can talk to other Lamanistas around the world. We have over a thousand people trained now, which is really great, and that's all about grassroots efforts and and and people kind of putting that in.
Speaker 2:And then we have our world breast alliance program, which is we work with organizations to help them expand their ability to educate in their communities. So what has happened traditionally is if an organization, for instance, maybe they do like breast cancer patient support, so after treatment or during treatment, survivorship, those kinds of programs. And they say, okay, well, we want to also educate people who haven't had breast cancer, so they'd have to come up with their own materials, their own PowerPoint presentations and processes. And we're like we've already in Swahili. So we say, okay, great, let's go find funding so we can put this into Swahili. And then we work with them on that Right now for our app you know, rewinding a little bit, telling you about these were the questions I had going into the education center center, um, what?
Speaker 2:What I did is I designed an app that answers all of that stuff. So it helps you know when you should be getting screened and what tools you should be getting screened with. You know what you should be doing to test those breasts and um. And it also sends you reminders of when to do self exams, cause we know a lot of times we just forget Um. And then it also walks you through a step-by-step of what you should be feeling in each part of your breast, like what, what is typical, and then explains what you can do to prepare for a mammogram, all all of those things all in one app.
Speaker 2:So everything that you need to know to get started is going to be in that app and if you notice a symptom, it's going to guide you on how to talk to your doctor and what you can expect for testing that sort of thing. And we've had so many women that have said you know, I saw that image and that's what helped me know. Two, three years later I noticed this change and I remember those lemons. It's a really memorable image and now we have this app that supports women and men in being able to look after their health and being able to understand what they need to be doing, because men can get breast cancer too.
Speaker 1:Right, and that was one of the questions I wanted to ask is how has this impacted men? Do you have anything to measure that on?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know one of the things that that we hear, and this is with our workplace programs. This is called Know your Lemons at Work, and companies, typically in the US, will have a budget from their insurer if they employ about 250 people or more to have a health promotion budget. So their insurer will reimburse them for health promotion activities. And so we have this Know your Limits at Work program that companies can purchase for their employees, but instead of handing it off to just the women's group to talk about it, it's a company wide challenge and and what we do with that is we get the women and the men involved in promoting screening. So, um, not all women insured by a company work for the company. Sometimes they're like the partner of someone who's an employee there, and so people get points for booking a mammogram, people get points for getting somebody else to book a mammogram, they get points for sharing the app, et cetera, and then there is some exclusive features on the app that are available to people who are in that at work program and they get support if someone is diagnosed. They get a toolkit. That's something I've designed as well. It's a visual toolkit that makes it easy for a patient to understand their diagnosis and communicate with their healthcare team to understand what treatments are best. And so what we've seen out of that program is that we are working with a well-known tech company and this particular division that we were working with was 80% male workforce Wow, and they did the Know your Lemons at Work program, and the response that we got back from the men was finally I have a way of bringing this up that's easy with with my spouse or my daughter or my mother, um, and, and one one man that was in the program, um.
Speaker 2:Afterwards his uh mother called him and he and he says, oh, I've just been to this, this uh workshop, uh, where I learned about the 12 signs of breast cancer, and so he shared it with her Um, and she looked at that and said, oh, I have one of those symptoms. And a week later she was diagnosed with stage one breast cancer and and now she's cancer free and and and. So this kind of thought of the a women's health issue is only meant to be discussed with women is really not allowing us to put in the effort that's needed to get people screened. We need all of us encouraging each other to do it so, encouraging our girlfriends, encouraging our family members and you know, men can spot these signs If they have access to breasts. Then they should know the 12 signs of breast cancer.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what I always tell people is like if you have breasts, you can get breast cancer right.
Speaker 2:I mean.
Speaker 1:I just spoke at a at a bras for a cause event here in Reno, or one of our local, um uh, community members here. It was a an event they have every year and I and our mayor mentioned men as well, and I got up there and spoke and said thank you for bringing that up, because one of my very best friends, her husband, had breast cancer and she they've gone to events where you know they're talking about awareness of breast cancer but they don't even bring up men, and so I'm always really adamant about bringing up men and women. If you have breasts, you can get breast cancer. It's just you know, and we do. We do need to bring that.
Speaker 2:Everyone has breasts. It's just, uh, women have the ability to make milk and men don't. But, um, you know, being able to, yes, men can get breast cancer and 1% of people with breast cancer are men. Um, but you know, a breast cancer diagnosis doesn't just happen to one person, it impacts a whole family, right, and?
Speaker 2:And we care about the health of our family and we need to make it easy to start these conversations, and that's really what we do, that's our whole purpose is we need to start these conversations about breast health, start these conversations about risk, start these conversations about screening and symptoms and self-exam, and just make it easy, because for too long, we've been kind of using pink ribbons as a substitute for education in a lot of our campaigns, and so pink ribbon is great, it, it, it very quickly signals this is breast cancer, but we're aware of breast cancer exists.
Speaker 2:Now we were ready for the next step of knowing the 12 signs and how to self-exam and how to be confident in talking to your doctor about your screening plan or getting testing when you notice something's wrong, because, in the end, no one will care about your health as much as you do, because no one has to live with your health as much as you do and no one has to live with your health as much as you do and being able to be empowered with information to know how to take care of yourself can mean everything.
Speaker 1:Well, and I, yeah, I like that bigger picture. Like we know it's there and now it's time to get to get down to the nitty gritty of because even before so, I knew a lot about breast cancer before breast cancer, but it's amazing how much more I learned that I should have known when I went into my treatments and into my surgeries and things like that, why I was getting you know ultrasound because of my dense breast tissue. I just learned so much more. And so which is one of the reasons I started the podcast in the first place is I wanted to bring more awareness about early detection and what to look for. So when I ran across Know your Lemons and really started looking into it, I thought to myself wow, that is, this organization is the perfect organization for me to marry with my nonprofit so that I can bring more awareness. I immediately Corinne, I want to let you know reached out to Nevada Cancer Coalition here in Reno and we are in talks with having hopefully, maybe at some point having them become a partner with, you know, the Global Alliance Partnership or you know whichever one will fit them best. And even she was like you know what if we can get more? Because there's no Lemonistas besides me here in Reno. So I want to get more. And we were thinking, wouldn't it be great to get more in our area that speak other languages, so we can reach more of those marginalized populations and teach those classes?
Speaker 1:That being said, I have been asked to speak in front of a rotary next week and before I even really got into Know your Lemons, I was going to go there and speak about my story and you know the podcast and things like that. Well, now I'm going to be bringing them the know your lemons, the you know, you know curriculum, the PowerPoint and and things like that. So I'm already doing my first one in a week, I know. And then, on top of that, um, I reached out to our local television station. I was on there.
Speaker 1:I've been on there a couple of times, um, but the first time I was on there was one year ago, October 31st, spoke about my story and the podcast. I wasn't a nonprofit yet, but this year I have some updates. So I will be on there again on the 31st and I will be speaking about my um, the updates to the nonprofit for, uh, test those breasts, but also I'm going to be speaking to them about know your lemons, so wish me luck. I just, I just think it's such a perfect partnership, all about education. So, um, I want to ask just a couple more questions of you. So how do you measure how many people you have impacted around the world?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so through our partners and our lemonistas, after someone teaches a class so, for example, after you teach the rotary class, you'll be counting how many people were in that room and then afterwards you fill out a quick little online form and then that goes onto our map instantly so you will see, um, those numbers change in Reno, um and uh.
Speaker 2:That's that's how we measure our impact. And then we also look at the number of people who are using our app and people who are visiting our website, and then we have a tool that we use online that anytime someone mentions Know your Lemons, it can estimate how many people have seen that and that's how we're like tracking the 1.85 billion is. We know what's being mentioned online and the size of the audience that each of those messages are getting, um, so that that helps us measure those numbers as well. But we're really interested in in what volunteers are doing to like do that community outreach. So so far this year, um Lebanese's have taught over 30,000 people in person um, lemonises have taught over 30,000 people in person, wow, wow, okay.
Speaker 1:So do you have people who do it? I, I'm assuming there are people who teach them also online and and things like that, like on zooms and okay. So that's, I mean, that's great, um, super brilliant, um, super brilliant. I love that you can track how many people you have impacted.
Speaker 1:I did notice I was looking at the map because I wanted to know where there were some gaps and where I might know people who live in certain places like, for example, brazil. I noticed that in Brazil, I didn't see any Lebanistas there. One educator in Brazil is there. So I One educator in Brazil, okay, one. So I was thinking, how can I reach people that I know who have either lived in Brazil or know people who live in Brazil? So I put on Facebook hey, who knows people in Brazil? And of course, they're like oh, I know people, if you're going to travel there, well, I'd love to travel there. But what I'm really looking for I sent them all private messages is that I'm looking for people to help educate about breast cancer through this Know your Lemon. So I've got some connections so far and I'm going to pull them into the website and help them learn more about it so that maybe they can get more Lemonistas in that area.
Speaker 2:That's great and you know, right now you've just demonstrated the power of visuals because, because we're visualizing our impact on the map, you can see, like, where there are some gaps. You say, hey, I think I can help fill in this gap by just reaching out to my network.
Speaker 1:And so really that.
Speaker 2:That's what we're about is we're here to visualize what we need to do and, you know, visualize the symptoms, visualize our impact and then invite people to join. So we also have our Know your Lemons at school program, where we provide teachers with lesson plans for them to teach in their classes and the students have the assignment to go home and start the conversation with their family. I love it. You've been getting your mammogram, mom. What is our family history when it comes to cancer? Um, you know, dad, you know what, what, what's available? Um, with our, our health plan, like, like those those sorts of things. So, being able to start those conversations with family, and then those students have that knowledge for a lifetime. And you know, the app can help anybody, um, starting from the time that they have breasts. That's that's our goal is, once you get breasts, you should be knowledgeable about them, for sure.
Speaker 1:And I, like you, have such an outside of the box. You're an outside of the box thinker. I'm an outside of the box thinker too. So when I was in my journey of learning more I'm a retired school teacher, so I taught middle and high school, so I know a ton of teachers and administrators in our area and so I'm like gosh, I could totally reach out to some of these people and maybe go and you know like a, you know an assembly or you know where they have speakers or whatever, and do a little something at some of the schools or whatever. So I am in the works of doing that.
Speaker 1:I just think that's brilliant too. And again, you know your whole idea about having lemons rather than breasts is best for, of course, them. So, and not sexualizing, right, of course, middle school kids, I'm just telling you. But so a couple more questions. I want our local communities to be able to partner with you. What is the best advice that you can give me about helping them understand the impact that they can make in our area? I know we talked about, yes, there's awareness and all of this, but getting down to the nitty gritty of actually educating people on a regular basis to whatever populations we have in our area. Cause I just think that that is is something that I really want to do, because they call me and ask me to speak at certain things, because, as their breast cancer survivor who is like, yeah, I'll tell my story, I really think it would be such a great idea. What advice do you have for them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean there are a couple of different ways to to get involved. The easiest one is to um, you know, go to know your lemonsorg slash Alliance and learn about our world breast Alliance partnership, because then that opens up the tools for everything the free training Um, and then we do co-branding so that they can have their logo and our logo on the materials as they're handing them out with contact details. But really it comes down to understanding why there's such a need for education for early detection. We know screening rates could be improved. We know screening rates, uh, could be improved. Um, I'm in Utah are. We are ranked 44, um in in the country for for mammogram screening rates. Mammograms are free with insurance and if you are not insured, the state usually will cover the cost of your mammogram. So so, um, finances shouldn't be a reason why why that's not done Um, but when somebody is detected at the earliest stage is 99% survivable, and so the more we can do to have people get screened, have people be aware of what's normal for them through self-exam, the more likely we are to get people diagnosed at these earlier stages and they will need less treatment.
Speaker 2:When they're diagnosed at an earlier stage it's less costly. You know, there there are so many reasons for this early diagnosis. But early diagnosis does not happen by accident. It requires some proactive steps to be taken. So it's either someone says I want to learn about breast health, so I'm going to be proactive and learn about these symptoms. That way someday something pops up I can go hey, that's something that needs checked out. And then they can go to the doctor and have it tested to see whether or not it is cancer. But kind of what tends to happen is we like to push things aside and sometimes we like to ignore it and we like to put things off right.
Speaker 2:Education can change our thoughts on that. Education can help us to not put something off or avoid things, because when we are not knowledgeable about something, that creates this gap, and that gap is usually filled with fear or apathy. So we either decide we don't care about it or we're afraid of it and we don't want to touch it. And so the less that we know, the greater the chance there is for us to not take action or to avoid it deliberately, the greater the chance there is for us to not take action or to avoid it deliberately. And so through education, we can change that and we can make it much more easy for people to go. Oh, this is just part of the routine of my health. Every time I go to get a mammogram, it's not about we're looking for cancer, it's just to make sure everything's looking normal, right, and so helping people understand that there's also a lot of myths and rumors about mammograms out there. Yes, the best advice I can give is follow the money. So when someone on social media tells you that mammograms are not effective and they'll cite some study and they kind of skew the interpretation of that study, etc. And they will usually use a title like doctor. Most of the time they have a doctorate in nutrition and what they have is a cookbook or some kind of other nutritional book to sell you and what? What they will tell you is that you can stop cancer through diet alone. We know lots of healthy people who have had cancer. Diet can help us with lots of conditions to reduce our risk.
Speaker 2:But but risk is like. But risk is like kind of like like a raffle is how I like to explain it. So when you enter a raffle and there's no such thing as not entering a raffle for cancer just by being alive you are in this raffle of potentially getting cancer someday. You might have very few risk factors and so maybe you only have like a handful of tickets inside this, this raffle, and that will mean that you are less likely to be chosen than somebody else who maybe has 50 tickets in that raffle, right, but it doesn't mean you can't be selected. So you might have a low risk, but there's no such thing as no risk.
Speaker 2:Now, someone may have 50 tickets in that raffle and maybe they have a high risk of getting selected, but that doesn't mean that they will. So. So, understanding that there's no such thing as no tickets, and anyone that will come to you that's basically saying I can make it, so you have no tickets in this cancer raffle cannot make that promise, and what they're trying to do is make you feel like you have no other option but theirs. So if they tell you mammograms are off the table for this concern about breast cancer, but guess what? I have this solution of this really healthy breakfast shake, or this like new plan of like how to eat, or this new supplement or whatever that that cures things that you know, whatever. They are trying to reduce your options so that you pick theirs so that you pick theirs Well, and it's dangerous.
Speaker 1:It is incredibly dangerous, and I actually had a friend of mine tell me that mammograms were dangerous and I said, no, they are not. They save lives. They save lives and I really appreciate your website that you have put together, because you use research-based, peer-reviewed sources that people need to pay attention to, and I always say, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is, and it's probably not true, and so make sure that you are going to the right resources. It's like anything else in our world that we want to make sure that we are looking at sources that are really truly research-based and peer-reviewed. So I appreciate your including all of that in your curriculum and and all the stuff that I went through. I love the fact that you sourced your.
Speaker 2:You know your information, so and and anyone that's trying to scare you into their solution. That's also a red flag, yeah, so, for example, we've had a lot of people ask about thermography, which does like a heat map of the body, and they said you know thermography doesn't use, you know it's not an x-ray, so there's no low-dose radiation being used. I feel more comfortable with with with thermography, because there's no compression, et cetera. But the thing is you can't determine if something is cancerous by whether or not it's giving off heat, and and thermography has been used and studied since the seventies and they have not found it to be beneficial. So if you want to do mammography and thermography because that makes you feel better in your own mind, then there's no harm in that. Like thermography is not harmful, but it's not a screening tool, and so so people are wanting these different options and you know, I I like to think of it as, as women, we are pretty good at managing pain.
Speaker 2:We can wear high heels all day, true, right? There's bikini waxes, there's, you know, childbirth, there's all kinds of things. Lip injections, right, like Botox, like all of that. Right, right, like Botox, like all of that, right, like. I have never had a mammogram that was more painful than any of those other things. And so you know, if you can wear heels, heels, all day, then you can handle a mammogram for 10 seconds, and so you know there.
Speaker 2:There are ways to make a mammogram easier. Um, one of them is is if you're menstruating, you should get your mammogram easier. One of them is is if you're menstruating, you should get your mammogram a couple of days after your period ends, a couple of days after you stop bleeding, because that's when the hormone levels are going to be the lowest in your body and less likely to make your breasts tender or sensitive, so that so when you can schedule the timing for that, and the mammography center will usually ask you when was the date of your last period they don't tell you why they're. They're asking you that, but that's because they want to know if they are getting an image of breasts that are in the last half of the menstrual cycle, when things tend to be more tender and swollen and temporarily lumpy.
Speaker 1:And they should tell you. I mean, I feel like that's something like when they ask you that that should be something that they say here is why we're asking.
Speaker 2:And I'm not sure the person asking the question actually knows the answer why they're being told to ask you that.
Speaker 1:We should make sure they know.
Speaker 2:Yes, they should become a lemonista. Yeah, and like, like the the know, your lemons app has a period tracker on there. We do not collect any health data that remains on your phone. If, when you delete the app, all your health data is gone too, we are not saving a copy of that anywhere, um, and it will tell you to do a self-exam a couple of days after your period ends.
Speaker 2:If you're menstruating and that's also the ideal time to be scheduling a mammogram you can also take ibuprofen, like a half hour before, and that can help with any kind of issue you have. But the best thing you can do is talk to your mammogram technician and say Hi, I'm really concerned about pain, so can you be extra careful with me, or whatever, because just communicating I have this concern can sometimes make the experience better. And so, um, your technician is there to help you feel comfortable and and all those things. Um, the last several times I've had a mammogram done on these newer machines, I've not felt much, and so, um, like I would say, on a scale of one to 10, the pain was zero, because it really was not that much compression, and so, um, the the equipment is getting better, so maybe some of these horror stories you've heard of are from older equipment.
Speaker 2:Um but but again, don't let concerns about something may or may not be uncomfortable be the thing that keeps you from getting screened. Um, because it is just a few, a few seconds, right? Um, I know Drew Barrymore did a live mammogram, uh, last week on her show. I love her and, and you know, show show here I am going through experience and this is what it's like is really not a big deal. Again, if you've ever considered a bikini wax or nails all day, like girl, you've, you've got a mammogram. That's easy, like you can handle that.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that she did that on TV. I love that she did that because it just brings more awareness and you know what she needs to become an alumnista too. I'm going to lobby for her to to become a alumnista. I do want to say I love the fact that you put those myths up there, because I took a picture of the myths that you have on there and posted it on Facebook and it was great, because I had friends that came in and said, oh my God, I totally thought that blah, blah, blah, and thank you so much for posting this and so just putting those myths up there too, because people will believe anything without any kind of research because where you have that information gap, people want to fill it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, and, and they'll want to fill it with the thing that's easy, sounds good or fear is going to come in yes right.
Speaker 2:So that's why it can be so tempting to be like, okay, well, I'm not going to get a mammogram because I'm afraid of what it's going to feel like, you know. Or, um, I'm, I'm, I'm just going to switch to these smoothies because that's a much easier solution. Right, and we want to do things that are kind of proactive for our health, and so people will offer us these solutions for a price, and so you know, just just being aware of that and, and you know, being able to spot when somebody is trying to manipulate you, um, is really helpful. So, again, follow the money. Who benefits financially from you doing this thing? If it's the person talking to you, then that's when you need to be skeptical. And and then are they trying to scare you into their solution? That's also a red flag.
Speaker 1:Right and you don't take any money. Like you, this is an organization that is a nonprofit charity organization, and so people can donate to you. But you know this is this is purely about education, and you do collaborate with medical providers as well. So I it's nice to be able to know that you have those people that you're working with I'm assuming that some of these healthcare professionals to our partnerships with you. You can go to your website and see all your partners and things like that.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, we partner with screening centers and things like that. You know, as as a charity, we are neutral. We do not endorse any particular product or anything. You know we have sponsors that support our work, but they have zero say in what we talk about. Awesome, you know. So we're that. That is our policy with any funding we receive is. You know, we're grateful for the funds so that we can go and train more people and get more languages, but we are not here to be your mouthpiece.
Speaker 1:Well, I would like to buy those earrings that you're wearing, because those are pretty cool. I love it. I want to get some of those maids, because those are things. So to my audience, if you're not seeing this, she's got these really cute lemon earrings with a little pink ribbon on them. They're just adorable. So what's next, corinne? Are there any future plans to build on this organization? I do want to ask you one in particular.
Speaker 1:I have a lot of survivors that I follow. I'm on Test those Breasts Instagram and I have a lot of people that I see, okay, and also on Facebook, um the support groups for people who have, say, gotten a mastectomy and um implants for reconstruction or deep flap surgery. I, I would you know, I'm trying to find out more about how those people get screened because after, like, I had deep flap and I can't get a mammograms anymore, so I, if anything, I have to get like ultrasounds, um, is there any type of education that might be out there at some point about for those people? Because we know that just because you had breast cancer and you are no longer, you know you're considered disease free, that you can't get it again. So we worry. So people like me, I worry not, I don't want. I don't spend all my every waking moment worrying, but I do worry about how am I going to know if I have breast cancer again, because I don't have any future screenings that are um automatically that I have to do. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so everyone's aftercare is different, and so that's called a surveillance plan, and so understanding what your surveillance plan is something everyone should be working out with their individual doctor, but that, you know, that would be a great area to look into. To be like, is there some education we can build around this to make it easier for patients to start that conversation with their physician? You know everything we do is about here's what you need to know so you can talk to your doctor about it, and you know different doctors will be more knowledgeable than others, right? So, like a primary care physician, they need to know a little bit of everything, but they don't know a lot about everything. And so you know, talking to a doctor about screening, they might know kind of the basics, but we can give you a lot of information to help flesh out those conversations in more detail. Um, and so, yeah, that that would be really interesting to include that right now we just have if you have a mastectomy or not, and that's how we're basing the screening. So what we do is we wait for an organization to make recommendations for screening and then we communicate that. Um, so, so I'll I'll have to look it up and see what if there's new recommendations out there for those particular kinds of reconstructive surgeries? And then you know as far as what's next.
Speaker 2:You know we're expanding the app to more languages. You know, if everyone who listened today downloaded the app, that would be amazing. It's free, it's award winning. Downloaded the app, that would be amazing. It's it's free, it's award-winning. Um. We've been in the top five health and fitness app many times, alongside Apple and Nike. Um, so you, you know our, our app is good, um, and it really does cover everything that you need to know. Um. And so we have our workplace program. So if you work in a company that has the employees 250 people or more, chances, our program will be covered. For work in a company that has the employees 250 people or more, chances, are program will be covered for free under your company's health insurance and you can save lives at your company by just introducing us. So you can reach that at knowyourlemonsorg slash at work. And then, if you're an organization, you can join the World Breast Alliance.
Speaker 2:If you're just interested in being an individual and contributing to the work we're doing, there are two things you can do. One is you can become a Lemonista like Jamie, and you do that through taking an online course that is free. You just go to knowyourlemonsorg slash Lemonista. The other option is to be an ambassador. So what ambassadors do is you help amplify our messages on social media or in your community. So maybe you'll go to your, your local high school and say, hey, I'd like to talk to the health teachers and let them know about this. Know your lemons lesson? Or you know, send them an email, or you know, we do fill it on the first uh post on the first day of every month and our ambassadors will help promote that content.
Speaker 2:Sometimes they'll make their own thing that they share. Sometimes they're just resharing in their stories the posts that we've put out. Um, last week, jenna Fisher from the office um shared her story of how she had been diagnosed with breast cancer last year and had finished her treatment. Um, and her story was please get screened, please do self exams, please, please know your, your body and we're like and share our stuff. Please share the toll sign. What we did is we asked our ambassadors can you go and just tag us on her post? Can you go and DM her? Can you? Because if we have a bunch of people all working together to help spread messages, we can do a lot. That ambassador program is like a really light way of getting involved, where maybe you're not feeling like you want to quite teach people in your community but you want to help spread the word. Like an ambassador is a great option too.
Speaker 1:So that's what? So I am a lemonista, I am an ambassador because I share things right. So I shared all of the um, the signs of breast cancer, on your lemons day.
Speaker 1:Yeah that was great. So that's that was on that. Is that always on October 12th? Yeah, so I shared a bunch of stuff. I always share stuff anyway.
Speaker 1:But but the the World Breast Alliance partnership program, am I allowed to be involved in that? So, as a nonprofit, I'm a small nonprofit, but I'm allowed to be involved in that. Yes, yes, okay, yeah, because I did fill out some things. Um, I haven't heard back yet. I don't know what, what steps to take next, but I'm sure I'm sure you can help me with that.
Speaker 1:But you know, I'm just so, um, thrilled that I had the wherewithal to go to that website and really start looking at it and I just, I appreciate your, your use of education, research-based, fun and quirky and great visuals and your app, and also about self-advocacy, about arming people with what they can say to their healthcare provider if they feel or see a sign, and so, with that, I'm really, really thrilled that I got to meet you one-on-one, so to speak. I will let you know how the Rotary Club goes next week, and so I love the fact that you guys have the circle. So when you to my audience, when you become a lemonista or anywhere, anytime, any kind of involvement with Know your Lemons. There's the circle, which is the social media version of Know your Lemons, and so I've gotten some really great ideas through there that we can communicate with other lemonistas. So you've got, like you've thought of it all.
Speaker 2:Yes, it definitely feels like we're doing it all Impressive.
Speaker 1:I love it and I'm so happy to be involved and I'm excited to see where this takes us. And so, do you have anything that you'd like to say before we wrap up?
Speaker 2:Well, jamie, just thank you for everything that you're doing right, like you're a lemonista, you're an ambassador, you're looking at becoming an Alliance member, like all of that is just you've taken an experience that's happened to you and you're turning into something good to help others. And this is how we beat cancer. This is how we change things, because it's going to take some time for us to find a cure for all the different types of breast cancer that are out there, and the best thing we can do right now is to educate people so that they can get diagnosed as early as possible. Until we have that vaccine or that treatment or, you know that, that innovation, that will eventually happen, but until then, the absolute best thing we can do is invest in education so people can get diagnosed at earlier, more treatable stages, so that we can save more lives from breast cancer. So thank you for the work that you're doing to change that picture for others.
Speaker 1:You bet, and I'm excited to be part of it, not because I had breast cancer, but that I get to talk to people like you and healthcare providers and other survivors to be able to bring that education. So thank you too, and I wish so much that I could have you right by my side on October 31st on the news. But I'm going to remember that all of this, what we talked about, so that I can bring awareness to our own area. So to my audience, you know, and to Corinne, thank you so much for everyone just joining us on this episode of test those breasts and, as usual, you know, those of you who are listening, please go to the, your favorite platform that you're listening to this on and rate and review. It always brings in um more audience. It just makes a huge difference all over the world. So thank you again and we will see you on the next episode of test those breasts. And, by the way, know your lemons Bye.
