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Test Those Breasts ™️
This podcast by Jamie Vaughn is a deep-dive discussion on a myriad of breast cancer topics, such as early detection, the initial shock of diagnosis, testing/scans, treatment, loss of hair, caregiving, surgery, emotional support, and advocacy.
These episodes will include breast cancer survivors, thrivers, caregivers, surgeons, oncologists, therapists, and other specialists who can speak to many different topics.
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified health care providers, therefore does not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers.
Test Those Breasts ™️
Episode 88: Discovering Personal Growth in the Face of Cancer with Spencer Moore
Empowerment through education and self-advocacy takes center stage as Spencer Moore shares her breast cancer journey with Jamie Vaughn. By fostering community support and providing relatable resources, they emphasize the importance of knowledge in overcoming fear of breast cancer.
• Spencer shares her personal story of early-stage breast cancer
• Importance of educating oneself on breast health
• Engaging in regular self-exams as a preventive measure
• Discussion around genetic vs. environmental factors in breast cancer
• Highlighting the Know Your Lemons initiative as a resource
• Tips for finding community support and advocacy
• Encouragement to prioritize self-awareness and health choices
Rating and reviewing matters! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate and review the podcast. Your support helps expand our reach and share crucial information with others.
www.spencerita.com
spencer@spencerita.com
IG: @spencerita_
IG: @thehairychinpodcast
Listen to ‘The Hairy Chin Podcast’ on your favorite podcast streaming platform or at https://the-hairy-chin-podcast.captivate.fm/
Resources:
Know Your Lemons Foundation: www.knowyourlemons.org
Know Your Lemons Mobile App: https://www.knowyourlemons.org/app
Amy Enos, the “Low Tox Pharmacist” Link is to download her “Five Free Ways to Lower Your Toxic Exposure”: https://lowtoxpharmacist.myflodesk.com/yo0hs6h130
Amazon link for the book: The Body Keeps The Score, Bessel v
Are you loving the Test Those Breasts! Podcast? You can show your support by donating to the Test Those Breasts Nonprofit @ https://testthosebreasts.org/donate/
Where to find Jamie:
Instagram LinkedIn TikTok Test Those Breasts Facebook Group LinkTree
Jamie Vaughn in the News!
Thanks for listening!
I would appreciate your rating and review where you listen to podcasts!
I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified healthcare providers, therefore may not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers .
Hello friends, welcome back to the Test those Breasts podcast. I am your host, jamie Vaughn. I'm a retired teacher of 20 years and a breast cancer thriver turned staunch, unapologetic, loud supporter and advocate for others, bringing education and awareness through a myriad of medical experts, therapists, caregivers and other survivors. A breast cancer diagnosis is incredibly overwhelming, with the mounds of information out there, and other survivors A breast cancer diagnosis is incredibly overwhelming, with the mounds of information out there, especially on Dr Google. I get it. I'm not a doctor and I know how important it is to uncover accurate information, which is my ongoing mission through my nonprofit. The podcast includes personal stories and opinions from breast cancer survivors and professional physicians, providing the most up-to-date information. At the time of recording Evidence, research and practices are always changing, so please check the date of the recording and always refer to your medical professionals for the most up-to-date information. I hope you find this podcast a source of inspiration and support from my guests. Their contact information is in the show notes, so please feel free to reach out to them. We have an enormous breast cancer community ready to support you in so many ways.
Speaker 1:Now let's listen to the next episode of Test those Breasts. Well, hello friends, Happy New Year and welcome to this episode of Test those Breasts. I am your host, jamie Vaughn, and today I am so excited that I finally get to interview my new breasty friend, spencer Moore. So Spencer is a creative professional advocate and the host of the Hairy Chin Podcast. An American expat from Raleigh, north Carolina, and living in Barcelona, spain, since 2016, spencer's journey has been one of radical self-advocacy navigating chronic illness, mental health challenges and an early stage breast cancer diagnosis. She brings warmth, humor and authenticity to tough conversations about female health, drawing from personal experience to empower women to reclaim their health and find their voices in a system that often overlooks them. Through her podcast and other platforms, spencer uses creativity as both a healing tool and a means to inspire transformation healing tool and a means to inspire transformation, advocating for better care, self-expression and empowered living. Well hello, spencer. How are you?
Speaker 2:Hi, jamie, I'm good. Happy New Year. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:I'm so excited. You and I have had a conversation in the past and we've had some scheduling things. We needed to get through the holidays and everything.
Speaker 1:But I'm super excited for our interview because we actually met through Know your Lemons and on the circle, our social platform that we communicate on my audience knows that I am a lemonista in Reno, nevada and you are also a lemonista and you are able to teach, um, you know breast cancer classes. You know helping people through how to do a proper, an actual proper breast exam, like I never knew how to do a proper. I knew to feel my boobs and stuff like that, but I never knew the proper way to do it. Um, and you know you just have been doing such great advocacy work from where you are in Spain, so I would love for my audience to know you know you had breast cancer. Who were you Like? It seems like we change over time with a diagnosis like this. Who was Spencer Moore before breast cancer?
Speaker 2:So I knew you were going to ask this question.
Speaker 2:You gave me a list of questions before this interview and that was number one and I thought about it for a bit actually, and I think that my answer is that I don't really know who I was before, but I really know now who I am now.
Speaker 2:You know, and I think that is the marked change for me is that, you know, I feel more. I feel more me now because it's I've been through it and I've had to really go through it with my body. I've had to really advocate for myself, I've had to learn a lot and I just feel very much more myself these days because I think that I've become stronger. I set stronger boundaries, I'm more careful with who I share my time with, I'm more appreciative of time and energy and just all of these things that I think they're really easy to take for granted. And so I think that's what's really changed for me is I think I've really settled into myself and especially kind of going into this world of health advocacy. I think that it's it's given me a lot of confidence to know that I have the strength and power to persevere through all of these things you know, and that's really shifted for me.
Speaker 1:You know, that's that's very powerful to say, because I know that there are some people. I felt like I knew who I was before breast cancer. But it's amazing the trauma that we go through and the realization that, wow, I don't even know who I was Like. Who was that person For me? I was a teacher for 20 years and I had lost my mom five years ago and going through that, all of that stuff, I just kind of came out on the other side, understanding that I was just different, like I was different than what I was before. I'm still going through that, by the way. So can you share with us how you found your breast cancer, what your diagnosis and treatments were?
Speaker 2:So my breast cancer was early stage, stage zero a ductal carcinoma in situ. It was found on my first mammogram that I'd ever had. That was preventative. I had no symptoms. I turned 40 in 2023 and the doctor said, okay, let's start screening for breast cancer. So I had my first mammogram and it came back suspicious. I think that out of the, you know, there's levels between zero and five, and then there's the ABC and I think it was a 4B which was, you know, highly suspicious, something like that. And I was shocked, I mean completely shocked, and I think that's really what kind of shook me through this process is that I just didn't expect it.
Speaker 2:I've had a lot of health problems throughout my life. I've had chronic problems, kind of more immune, autoimmune issues and I don't know. Cancer hits different. It's just it's very scary and it kind of makes you feel like you're losing control of your body and your health, you know. And so I was just really really taken aback, like, look, I've had autoimmune, I've had thyroid problems and things like that, but you kind of always feel like it's manageable, but then when the cancer award comes up, it's just really scary. Comes up, it's just really scary. So I had the mammogram.
Speaker 2:Then they wanted to do a stereotactic biopsy. I had two of them, because the first one was quite traumatic for me because it was in a chair sitting up. And the stereotactic biopsy it's where they kind of prod you like a turkey. They put a big needle in with a vacuum, know they? They with a vacuum and they, they put a marker in. And the first biopsy that I had scheduled was actually in an upright chair. So I I saw everything and I fainted and they did it three times and I fainted each time. They kept trying to do it again and again and I finally said like I can't, I can't do this. And they said, look, we're going to have to reschedule and put you on a prone table where you're laying on your stomach and you're laying face face down and they do it that way. And that one was successful.
Speaker 2:But that started the whole kind of journey. It was just, it was challenging, it was, it was stressful Um. I was then diagnosed with the um from the serotactic biopsy. Then they diagnosed it with hormone positive doctoral carcinoma in situ. It was estrogen and progesterone positive, 90% both. It was HER2 negative, which was positive, and so they put me on tamoxifen. They started me on tamoxifen as soon as those results came back, and then I had the lumpectomy and then, a few weeks after that, I did three weeks of radiation. Okay, so 15 sessions.
Speaker 1:So I had HER2 positive, erpr negative, yeah, and I do want to talk about that. You know, with the whole, you know that yours was positive, like where did that come from? So I was told about a year and a half ago that a lot of women and this may or may not be true I was seeing a functional health doctor who actually is is incredibly well-versed, very well-educated. He's constantly, you know, learning and learning about birth control pills. So I was mine was not ER positive though, but I was on birth control when I was younger. For he says, you know, usually, like if people are on birth control for more than four years, that kind of represents some problems down the road Sometimes that's what they have found.
Speaker 1:I, mine, was not ER positive. So what were you told, or if anything about, about being positive?
Speaker 2:I wasn't told a lot. What I was told about it being positive is that it's good to know because we know it will respond to hormone therapy. That's what the main thing is. They said, look, they do a test called a KI-67, which is the speed of which the tumors are replicating, and mine was like 10%. It was lower than 20% and that's really positive because that means it's a slow growing tumor or carcinoma. So they said look, it's very slow growing, that's positive. It's HER2 negative, which means that there's most likely not a genetic factor, and it's estrogen progesterone led, which means that it's hormone led and hormone treatment will be the best um treatment moving forward. Now I mean I could have a whole, we could have a whole other conversation about hormone treatment, what tamoxifen does to your body and the side effects it causes, because that's challenging, that's very challenging. But I wasn't really told a lot about where the hormone positivity could have come from.
Speaker 2:I have read a lot about birth controls. I did take birth control for years. I actually went off birth control in my early 30s because my body was just not having it. It would not settle into one. I was changing and going from one to another because I just kept having breakthrough, bleeding, and you know I would have a period for three weeks and then I wouldn't get it for four months and it wasn't working for my body. So I just ended up coming off of it, Um, which I'm actually glad I did. You know, that was at least I don't know eight. I guess I said eight years ago, maybe longer, that I went off in my early thirties, Um, but I do know that there are a lot of factors that they're kind of correlating now, Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when I was in my I want to say I was probably mid forties, uh, maybe a little bit younger I had the ablation surgery, where they they um scrape the uterine wall so you don't have any more periods. And I didn't want to have. I never wanted to have bear my own children. So I already knew this is why I was on the pill and other uh birth controls. But then I was like I'm done with these periods. I was having, you know, terrible pains and all of that. So we finally did that and then ultimately, um, you know, I had a uh, you know, my uterus taken out because it created this um, it had a hematoma um on my uterus and so they had to take it out. So, um, so I went through all of that. But the birth control I would say I was probably on birth control for about 15 to 20 years maybe.
Speaker 1:But it just always baffles me all of the conflicting information out there, and before we started our episode just now, we were talking about all the conflicting information about what could have caused breast cancer. So let's, let's talk about that a little bit. You do have some good resources in the show notes that we'll talk about. But what is your understanding? We were talking about autoimmune diseases. What's your understanding um based on your experience? I know we're not doctors, but we just play them on TV, just kidding.
Speaker 1:We're not doctors, but we do interview people who are experts in the field and so I always tell my audience look look at the date of the recording, make sure that you are talking with your own doctors. But what is your understanding? What have you learned over the years as to what might be causing seriously like this epidemic? Because there is someone diagnosed daily, like many people diagnosed daily. What is happening?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know it's so. It's so interesting because in in talking to you know my, in my podcast I I talk to mostly female, mostly female interviewers and and you're you'll be on the podcast soon, which I'm so excited, we have that interview coming up Um but I mostly talk to women. I mostly talk to experts in their field and I've learned that the body is so complex, you know, I think that we want to put it down to like this plus, this equals this, and it's just not always that way. And I also learned that in my own healing of, you know, taking the tamoxifen, doing the radiation, I mean I had lymphedema from the radiation. I had, you know, pretty heavy radiation burns. I mean I had lymphedema from the radiation. I had pretty heavy radiation burns. The radiation was not just a walk in the park, I don't think for anybody, but I had some side effects. I had cording in my armpit and I lost range of motion. Every body is going to be a different individual and have a different reaction to all these things. I know that both of us in our Lemonista training, we learn about the risk factors and we learn about ways to lower your chance. So, you know, not smoking nicotine, not smoking cigarette, not excessively drinking alcohol. You know, keep a healthy weight, move your body. One of the things I've seen so much online as I've kind of got more to help advocacy is that movement is everything and so a sedentary lifestyle if you're not exercising and you're not moving. There's such a higher rate of cancers in people that just don't exercise. Um, so I do think it depends on the choices you make. You know, as you go through life, you know, are you going to eat healthy? You know the. You know eat the rainbow. You know, as you go through life, you know, are you going to eat healthy? You know the. You know eat the rainbow. You know, throughout your week, are you going to move? Are you going to hydrate, drink a lot of water?
Speaker 2:I also think that there's a lot of factors that are more difficult to control, and I've gotten, I've had two interviews now with a woman who is she calls herself a low-tox pharmacist. She has started her career and her career has been in in geriatric pharmacy, but her mother was diagnosed with the late stage cancer and passed away very quickly and it was just very traumatic and, and you know, she lost her mom and she really started learning about environmental causes of cancer through that process and now her now her whole platform is teaching people how to lower their toxic exposure in their lives and she'll be tagged in the show notes. Her name's Amy Enos and I really love what she's doing and she's sharing, because we live in a world now where we cannot control our toxic exposure. It will happen regardless of what we do, because the air quality and their microplastics and the pollution and the ingredients that are in so many common things that we use. But there are ways that you can educate yourself to lower the exposure and I think that it's very important for women to learn about that.
Speaker 2:I think it can be very overwhelming and Amy and I talked about that in some of our episodes of that. You know, this is a lifestyle change. It's also a mindset shift for a lot of people to realize that perhaps the coffee creamer that I've been using for 15 years, that I love so much, is actually full of really crappy ingredients. That when you add all of those in a bucket considering the makeup and the beauty products and the shampoos and the lotions and all these other things the bucket overflows so, so easily. You know, and I think that's a really important conversation for people to have is how healthy really is my lifestyle.
Speaker 1:You know, Right, because I thought I was healthy before breast cancer. I've always, you know, I mean I've always, you know, moved my body, ate right. I mean there were times where I did not eat right. Obviously, a lot of times, I'm sure we kind of go through these lulls sometimes. Or when I was a teenager, um, you know, or even in my twenties I was a social smoker. You know, like I look back on that, it's like what the fuck was I doing? I don't even like, seriously, I don't even know.
Speaker 1:Um, I look back and think to, but I understand it, like that was what we did, you know, and you know, and I grew up in a family of drinkers and so that was just all we've known. Like my parents would take us to wineries, we would, you know, and, um, so I know that a lot of my life I was, uh, not putting good things in my body, um, but my and my mom never really moved her body and she never really ate right. She did, but she didn't. She was never a smoker, but she certainly was a drinker, but she ended up dying of congestive heart failure and I know that that can be genetic, and so I obviously need to look out that for myself. My brothers have never had a serious illness. My dad had a heart valve repair, but I'm the one who has had the cancer.
Speaker 1:I'm the one and you know they could say, oh, it's because you smoked, or it's because you this, or because you put makeup on, because whatever. But when I got the words, you have cancer. People were pretty surprised when I came out, cause I'm like a big blabber mouth, you know I'll. I came out on social media hey, I have breast cancer. Um, people were really shocked because I had just lost like 33 pounds a year and a half prior, Cause I got myself up to a weight that I'd never been at before, and that happened.
Speaker 1:That started during COVID. Of course, you know we were drinking and eating our way through COVID, both me and my husband. But I lost the weight and I was feeling so good and I was looking good, I felt good about myself, in other words. And so people were really surprised. They're like, oh my God, but Jamie, you're so healthy and it turns out that that apparently healthy people can get cancer too. That's first, Um, and so you're right, Like we can't control what is happening environmentally, um, as far as what's being put in our body. So I love the fact that you have this resource that can kind of help us with risk factors and what we can do with our life, what we can control in other words.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think it's important, even if try, try and control everything which is just literally impossible and you might just make yourself sick from trying to control everything it still might not eliminate the fact that you could get cancer. I mean, it's like I said, our bodies are so complex and I think that the bottom line of this is to just do the best you can. You know, because you can easily, you know, spin yourself into just a complete tizzy trying to control all these factors, you know. And health is a scary thing, and I don't think that I think people who have been diagnosed with cancer things, you, you realize how fragile it can be, right, and then there's kind of this fear of if it could come back, and it's just, it's hard, and so I do think that there's a level of just acceptance of saying like I'm doing the best that I can, what comes will come and there's nothing that I can really do about it.
Speaker 2:I mean, look, don't smoke packs of cigarettes a day, maybe. I mean, maybe there's some choices that you know you can make, but it's not to say that, look, I was a smoker in the past, I was a heavier drinker in the past than I am now. Do I think that those choices got me where I am today? Maybe, maybe not. There's just no way to tell. But I do know that I am intentionally making better choices for my health now, and that's all any of us can do, I think.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think a really good point to make also is that it's really so. If people might might have this mindset of, well, shit, if I, if I'm healthy, if I, if I do all these things, then I still might get cancer, then might as well just do all these unhealthy things. That's not true, and the reason is because the healthier your body is, the better you will be able to move through the treatments and survive this breast cancer, because I just feel like, because my body was healthy at that time, I was able to move through the treatments and the surgery and all of that and heal better, just because of that. So that's enough, I think, just to make sure that you're healthy, Absolutely.
Speaker 2:It's tons, it's very empowering and I think that's the thing, you know, that's also shifted for me since before this is that I feel very empowered now to make good choices for myself and for my body. And I think that a lot of times, as women, we can really kind of like treat ourselves quite poorly in terms of like taking care of everybody else and not taking care of ourselves and putting other people first or, you know, having a pretty harsh inner critic. And I think, since all of this has happened, I'm I'm really prioritizing myself without any shame. You know, I'm taking care of myself now and and um, I don't feel bad about that, you know, awesome, and and I like that yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that too. Um, let's talk about, uh, know your lemons. How did you get involved with know your lemons? How? This goes along with my question of how are you giving back to the breast cancer community, because clearly you are um with your podcast with know your lemons. Tell me about how you came about know your lemons and how you became a partner with them.
Speaker 2:I found them online. I think that it was one day I think I was doing that radiation. It was when I was doing my radiation sessions, which was the end of 23 in December, and I found them online Now. Look, they had a really big viral photo of the 12 signs of breast cancer that's been seen by like a billion people. But actually that didn't catch me.
Speaker 2:I was Googling information and I think that's also really important to understand that finding your tribe, finding people that are going through similar things, and connecting with them, is so important during things like this. I know your lemons really kind of became my tribe in that way. I'm so grateful for so many reasons why that I found them. But I think I was Googling about radiation side effects and symptoms and something came up about them and I went into a rabbit hole of their website and downloaded the app, started kind of learning about the process of the breast cancer treatment, and then it said you know, volunteer for us.
Speaker 2:I think there was like something that said volunteer for us. And I was like, oh, I'm in 100%, I would love to volunteer, and that really started this whole path for me of health advocacy. I became a Luminista Um, and then I also am kind of I think now it's like a social media ambassador or something like that that they call it and and I've, just I've, I dove in and it just feels so good because, um, you know, I interviewed Corinne, the founder. I believe you've interviewed her as well. Yes, yeah, she's wonderful.
Speaker 2:And her story is really beautiful about how she founded the organization, but in our interview she said the reason I wanted to do this is because this information has been hidden from women for so long. It's available, but it's been hidden and she wanted to create a platform where women could be so easily educated. And that just really hit me and I really believe that it takes a village to get through life it really does and so that has just propelled me into health advocacy of sharing this information so people can learn easily.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. Yeah, she was a great interview and I love it. I was so inspired by her reasoning cause I really wanted to know Um she had. So she had two grandmothers who passed away of breast cancer One she had never met, I think. And then her childhood best friend died of breast cancer and she was like I got yeah, I got to do something about this, so I I just really resonated with that.
Speaker 1:They fell on my lap I don't even remember I saw them on Instagram or something like that and I started following them and I was so drawn to the lemons and the the visual of the 12 signs of breast cancer using lemons.
Speaker 1:And I thought how clever, that's really cool. So I started actually sharing their stuff just because I'm a sharer. I am one of those people and this is who I was before breast cancer too. I have always been one of those people who wants to uplift other people. I have always shared their businesses. I'm very much a referral-based type person, so I share everyone's posts If it resonates with me and I feel that it's really cool and I want to elevate them. I share it all the time, even if they don't even know me, and that's what I was doing with Know your Lemons.
Speaker 1:But I had never really looked deeply into everything that they had to offer until one day I was I don't know, maybe I was sick or something. It was back in October, early October, maybe late September, early October and I was just kind of milling around on their website and I saw the volunteer thing too and it said, hey, you can go through a course to become a lemonista and I thought that's right up my alley, because test those breasts. It's just. I don't make any money. It's a nonprofit now but I don't like make money off of my nonprofit. I use the money to pay for platforms like what we're recording on right now and editing and advertising and all of those, um, so I never take money from breast cancer survivors and I never will.
Speaker 1:And I really liked, I really aligned with what Lemon uh, know your Lemons does, because I, I want, I've just wanted to bring awareness to people, and not just people, obviously, who've had breast cancer, but, more importantly, those who've never had breast cancer. And I have had someone ask me one time why is your audience, why are you trying to focus on people who've never had breast cancer? It's not even on their radar and I go.
Speaker 2:That's why that's the problem. That's why Because one thing that I learned through Know your Limits and through what you're nailing it on the head, is that the best fight against breast cancer is prevention, is to just not get it in the first place and, like I said before, there's so much control that you have in that, but there are ways, there are preventative measures that can be taken, and so it's just, it's very important to just know that, right, yes, important to just know that right.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I love all of the um, all of the paraphernalia, all of the all of the products you can get Uh, I don't know, do you call that paraphernalia or is that drug related All of the goodies so um.
Speaker 1:so I have taught my first breast cancer class to 47 men and women, that's lovely, that's perfect.
Speaker 1:And I used these lemons. So, just to the audience, if you don't know these lemons, you can actually feel a lump in there, and I think that's so important because I had never felt a lump in my breast until I went in for my mammogram. And I had a lump and I certainly felt it. If you wouldn't, it felt like this, yeah, yeah, and I had never felt it Right. So so I handed these lemons out to the audience and people were very intrigued with them and one of the guys in there said you know, Jamie, you really have to squeeze hard to actually feel that lump in there.
Speaker 1:And I said, yes, most people do not know how to do a proper breast exam all over into your lymph nodes, into your neck, into your breast and and pressing, you know, to find, to find it. And so that was a good observation on his part. And what I found was that my class that I taught to these 47 men and women and they were older and some people had known people with breast cancer, Some people had had breast cancer um learned so much. They came up to me after the class and said Jamie, thank you so much, because there are so many things that I did not know and I felt that way. I knew a lot about breast cancer before I was diagnosed, but it was amazing how many things I didn't know, that I'm still learning to this day.
Speaker 2:So I have a specific statistic in mind that shocked me when I did my lemonista training, and I'm wondering what was the biggest shock for you when you trained as a lemonista? Like something that you just had no idea about when you were learning about teaching breast.
Speaker 1:I think that there was like 9% of people do breast exams the low percentage, the lowest, the low percentage of people who actually do breast exams.
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah, I don't remember that.
Speaker 1:Or even know how.
Speaker 2:It was a similar number, but mine was that 8% to 10% of breast cancers are genetic. Blew my mind. That blew my to 10% of breast cancers are genetic. Blew my mind. That blew my mind too. I always thought that breast cancer was genetic. I mean it's like because every time you go to a doctor they say, do you have breast cancer in your family? That's like one of the top questions they asked you. So the fact that over 90% and that number is changing dramatically actually over the past years, over 90% probably is environmental, that blew my mind.
Speaker 1:Right. That blew my mind too, and so I want to do over. That blew my mind. I was so shocked because I too have always thought to myself that it was genetic. Now I will tell you that one of my friends got breast cancer a couple years prior, maybe a few years prior, and I will never forget when she told me that her doctor said and let me let me back up a little bit.
Speaker 1:I've had two lumpectomies in the past 10 years. They were benign, but I've always been really good at going and getting my mammograms and screenings and I knew that I had dense breast tissue. I knew all those. But my friend told me that her doctor said it's not a matter of if you're going to get breast cancer, it's a matter of when. That blew me away, and that always stuck with me. So when I was diagnosed, yes, I was shocked and crazed, but I wasn't part of me, was not surprised. It's not like I never had lumps before, because I did. Obviously I had lumpectomies. It was a matter of when one of those lumps was going to be cancerous, and so that blew me away too. And then when I found out the percentage of people who had genetics and it was so low that even blew my mind even more, because there's so many people out there still to this day who think that it really has to be genetic to have a higher chance, yeah, and I think also, you know, with BRCA testing BRCA testing now is so accessible.
Speaker 2:You can get tested for genetic markers of breast cancer quite easily now and quite affordably now. So I think that you know, educating women and men that even if they're BRCA negative, they still need to put in place preventative measures for breast cancer. It's you're not in the clear if you're BRCA negative and I almost feel like it's this false sense of security of, oh, I got genetic tested, I'm BRCA negative, I'm fine, and it's like I think that's more dangerous than just not even getting the test done. You know, really being aware that you always have to put in the preventative measures.
Speaker 1:I do have a question for you, and this is actually for one of my very best friends. So her mother died of breast cancer I think that she was like 40. And my friend has never had a genetic test before and we talked about this recently and I know that she's I think that she's a bit fearful of what it might say, and so also I think she had a nurse or a doctor say hey, if you get it, then insurance might not pay for certain things or you'll be like a pre-existing condition.
Speaker 1:Right. What are your thoughts on that? I have my own thoughts, based on a couple of people that I've spoken to about this. If people are afraid to do that, what would your response be?
Speaker 2:So the way I'll answer this is by.
Speaker 2:The first limonisa class that I ever taught was to a group of close friends here in Barcelona and I said invite whoever you want to come, please, like the more the merrier, literally in this class and almost I would say more than half invited people that did not want to come because they were scared of the information that they were going to learn, and that really shocked me of thinking, wow, it's.
Speaker 2:You know, I was already post-treatment at that time, like I was, like you know, open the floodgates. I want all the information I can have and I kind of lost that perspective of being able to choose if I wanted or not to have the information. So I think it depends on what would she do with the results if she got. So if the results came back positive or negative, would it change what she's doing in her life anyways? Does she have any preventative measures now? Is she getting mammograms? Is she doing self-rest exams? You know, I mean if she's doing all these things and then that you know if it makes her feel better to not know the genetic factor, if it lowers her stress, if it makes her, you know, live her life, then that's her choice, right.
Speaker 2:But you know it is important to carry on with all of that. You take advantage of all that we have in in science now, which is you, which is mammograms and learning, the self-breast exams and things like that. I mean, look, if you do have BRCA, if you are BRCA positive, it does increase your chances quite significantly of not just breast cancer but ovarian cancer and other female cervical cancer. So if you do have a genetic history, it is important information in my opinion, and I think that we're very lucky to be in an era these days of having access to this information. You know it's challenging. I can understand that. It would be very hard to make that choice.
Speaker 1:I completely agree, and it's kind of. It's almost like a person who does find out that they have it in their family and decide to go and be a previvor of what how we call a previvor where they get the mastectomy and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:But even when you get mastectomies, they leave breast tissue behind. There's no way to get all of the breast tissue. It takes one cell to grow as cancer, right? So that's a huge decision as well. I interviewed a brother and sister duo at his breast cancer. Are you aware of his breast cancer? His name is Harvey and he got breast cancer. His name is Harvey and he got breast cancer. His sister got breast cancer. Uh, did the genetic test? Harvey, I believe, did the genetics test too. They both had breast cancer.
Speaker 1:So my friend has a son, and so one of the things I told her is that when you're thinking about your decision, of whether you're going to do that, it could affect also your son, right? Because I know that this is possible for other family members to get it as well. So that was. I kind of gave her those options. It's like, first of all, it is your choice. I kind of gave her those options. It's like, first of all, it is your choice If it does make you feel less stressed and things like that, and you are going to get your mammograms and your ultrasounds or whatever, and advocating for yourself to make sure that you're doing that on a regular basis. You're doing exams. That's great. And think about your son, because it is possible for men to get breast cancer. It's a lower rate, but it does happen.
Speaker 2:It is true, it is true. In fact I talked about this with Corinne. I think Beyonce's dad is one of the more high profile men who underwent treatment for breast cancer. It's 1% of the whole picture of breast cancer, but let's realize the picture of breast cancer is massive, like you said, hundreds of people diagnosed, you know, within days, weeks. I mean it's a really large number. So 1% is not a small number of that. You know those people very much matter and there are a lot of them.
Speaker 1:Yes, and there needs to be awareness. For sure. It's not like even if she did go in and get a genetic test and it wasn't in and she didn't have the BRCA gene, great. But you know it's, you just never know. And so it's such a I feel like it's a very complex and hard decision to make, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do, I do and, like I said I, you know I come from a medical family. I have a lot of surgeons and doctors in my immediate family and and so it's just always been. You know, you go the medical route. If you can get the answers and it's available, then you just do it. But I do think that there are a lot of people that aren't comfortable going that route and you kind of have to see it as to each their own. You know, maybe sometimes ignorance is bliss in that way, because then you're not thinking of it and it's not stressing you out. And we talked about this before we hit record. You know, stress can be a major player in in your overall health and it's not to say that if you're stressed you're going to get cancer. You know, I mean, look, you could get irritable bowel syndrome from being stressed. I mean, there's just a lot of things. But we know that stress does cause stress, poor things to happen in the body, right?
Speaker 1:Yes, I completely agree, and that's what I always thought really was. The biggest cause is that I was under a lot of stress and trauma ever since my mom died. It was, you know. I went through a lot of stuff and then I lost my two father-in-laws during that time. Then we went through COVID and so there was just a lot of stress, and so I just chalk it up to that's what it was, but we don't know for sure. There are some schools of thought on that. I want to talk to your podcast. It's called the Hairy Chin Podcast. How long have you been podcasting? I've been podcasting since, I think, august, I think last.
Speaker 2:August is when I started, so I'm a newbie into this world. I think I've just got 10 episodes out. I've been podcasting since, I think, august. I think last August is when I started, so I'm a newbie into this world. I think I've just got 10 episodes out. I've been doing them bi-weekly because podcasting is a lot. It's a lot of work. I edit it myself and I do all of the marketing and advertising myself.
Speaker 2:My background is in graphic design and that's another reason I was so just sucked into the world of Know your Limits is. Corinne started as a graphic designer and that's how she created this whole campaign around Limits. I was just completely enamored by what she was able to do with these graphics and I did take a break over the holidays. I'm still kind of figuring out some of these chronic illnesses that I've had going on and some health things, and so it's a real journey and you have to kind of be compassionate with yourself that healing is not linear. It's not always going to go up and sometimes there's some good days and bad days. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And not everyone's going to understand that. It's very difficult for people around us to understand that. I've got that going on for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I said earlier, it's important to find your tribe and that has been such a change for me since, I would say, since this treatment is. I used to talk to anybody about my health stuff, you know, and now I'm much more guarded about who I really share what is going on, to know that they're safe people that aren't going to dismiss it or that aren't going to think that I'm being dramatic or, you know, nobody knows how each one of us is feeling and I think it's really important to really set your boundaries and find those safe people in that safe tribe that you can feel are compassionate with you. That's really important in healing, I agree.
Speaker 1:That's such great advice. Well, podcasting is fun. It is a lot of work I do. I've had people edit mine before and then I I know how to edit, so right now I'm editing my own. Um, but it it does take a lot of work, but what I do find is that it's very healing for me, because I get to talk to people like you, um, and so every time I close my computer after an interview, I'm like oh my God, I'm blown away. I learned so much more from this person, right? So, um, I just I'm so glad and I love what. Where did the hairy chin come from?
Speaker 2:I'm so curious. So when I was, when I was a teenager, I was diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome. Uh, I think I was 18 when I I was diagnosed and I had a lot of. You know, my periods have been really regular and hard and one of the lovely side effects of PCOS is extra body hair on your body, normally on your stomach, on your face and on your chin and you know the hairy chin. It's been funny for me. Now I'm 41.
Speaker 2:I'll be 42 in March and a lot of my friends around this age are starting to get chin hairs. I've had them since I was 18. And I remember my first chin hair was found by a girl in the high school bathroom and she thought that it was like a hair that had fallen off my head and she went to pull it and it was attached and she said, oh my gosh, you have a chin hair. And I was mortified. Oh my God, I was 18, in the senior girl's bathroom, mortified, and look, I mean there was no controlling it.
Speaker 2:My body, you know it carries a lot of progesterone and my hormone, testosterone, my hormones, are a little off. They've always been that way. But I always remembered that story. You know that experience and I just thought, look, if I want to talk about female health, I'm going to talk about the real, the real female health, which is, which is finding chin hairs, you know, and I can sit at my desk and just kind of feel around and say, oh, there's one, oh there's one. You know, I think we all get to a point in life where that happens.
Speaker 1:I have one right here, and sometimes I have one right here and sometimes I get one over here. I think that is so clever. So thank you for talking about real health issues for women. That is what we need. One of the questions I want to ask you is what question do you wish you would have asked?
Speaker 2:in hindsight of your diagnosis. Well, you know, it's actually my answers changed now that we've been speaking. I did not know and this was actually really terrible when it happened is I did not know what the stereotactic biopsy was, I was not given any information about it and and I was literally put in a chair sitting upright with a mammogram machine in front of me and then this giant needle came out of the top right corner and it was just so terrifying for me. I think that I didn't know what questions to ask at the time of what was coming up in my treatment, because I was just so shocked. You know, they tell you you have these irregular tests and then they say we're just going to do biopsy and it's no big thing. You need to get your insurance to approve it, which took six times for me that I had to go through all this approval for the insurance and I just didn't know to ask the questions I was so overwhelmed of oh my gosh, I've just been diagnosed with this and now I have to go to these next stages.
Speaker 2:One of the things that I think is so amazing we talked about Know your Limits and how they have so much stuff on their website and I say stuff lovingly, but they have so much content and one of the things is they give you a guide of questions to ask when you've been diagnosed or when you're going through treatment, to kind of know what's coming and what to ask for, and I think that's brilliant.
Speaker 2:I wish that I had known about that guide back then and I would have asked questions on that guide that they have, because I just didn't know what questions to ask, right, um. The same happened for radiation. I didn't move a lot during radiation. Radiation made me very tired, um, and the radiation fatigue hit me really hard and I wish that I had asked more questions about what was going to happen to my body during and after the radiation. Um, I got a lot of swelling in my arm, um, in my armpit, like I said, I had a courting which limited my um, my range of motion, so I just I just don't feel like I asked a lot of things, you know, um, but I think it was because I was just overwhelmed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's why it's really important, obviously, to take someone with you, if you can, so that they can help you through that overwhelming feeling. That was my husband for me. So I and I know that, um, that people just need to take somebody so that they can help you with those questions. Um, and that's another reason that it's important to plug yourself into the community, because the people in the community are going to be able to help you with those questions. So, like, on test those breastsorg, I have a resource page and that is where I put all the resources. So like, for example, I will be putting the hairy chin podcast on my resource page. I will be putting any of this other stuff on here in the in like, the know your lemons is already on there. The know your lemons app is on there the free app For those people who don't know. There's a free Know your Lemons app that actually reminds you of when to do your breast exams. You know just has all of this information on there that is very helpful in educating you about breast cancer and what to look for and some of the myths about breast cancer.
Speaker 1:I will definitely be wanting to reach out to Amy Enos as well, because I think that I would love to have her on this podcast to talk about this stuff. I will put her stuff on there. So these are all free resources that I curate and put on that website. So questions to ask when you go and talk to your oncologist for the first time. I have interviewed Dr Tiffany Troso from New York, who I have her information on the resources about what things to bring to your first appointment with your oncologist. So the work that we do, I know, is so incredibly important and I'm just grateful that you are out there doing your thing and we are able to collaborate together. Is there any piece of advice that you would actually give to someone who's never been diagnosed with breast cancer?
Speaker 2:My piece of advice is I mean, my biggest thing that I say is that knowledge isn't powerful, it's empowering. You know, it really does kind of teach you about yourself and what works for you and for you as an individual. So I would just say, educate yourself as much as you can, and even if it's not, if you don't have a family history, or if you do have a family history or if you've been diagnosed or you're scared about being diagnosed, knowledge is so powerful in that way that it can empower you to feel better, feel more confident. That first Know your Limits session I talked about with my close friends here. They all left saying I feel so empowered about my body and about my breasts and about knowing what to do now.
Speaker 2:I think that and Corinne says this in the interview I did with her is that when there's a gap of knowledge, fear normally fills that space, and so if you can educate yourself and fill in that gap, you normally aren't so afraid. And I find that so empowering, especially as a woman, because I really do feel that a lot of this information is just not front and center as it should be, and so I'm so grateful to have met you through Know your Limits, to be able to collaborate like we are and be on each other's podcasts and build each other up. It's for such a greater good, you know, and so I feel like it's just a really beautiful thing. The more you can know, the better I think things will be. I really believe that.
Speaker 1:I do too and, on the flip side, making sure that you're not going down the rabbit hole of Googling things too much. That is one piece of advice that someone my real good friend another good friend who had breast cancer she says I'm going to give you one piece of advice Don't Google stuff. Don't go down the rabbit hole of Googling. Make sure that you are communicating with people in your community, in the breast cancer community, so that you're not so crazed, overwhelmed and get so fearful because of that vast information, because there's a lot of false information out there too, right, there are people telling you that you shouldn't do this, shouldn't do that, shouldn't do this, when it's totally not even that's not the correct information to have. So Know your Lemons, I believe, is one of the best resources out there, and I'm just so grateful also that we get to talk to each other and that you were on my podcast, and I have a feeling we're going to be working and doing some other things in the future. I love it. Yeah, spencer thank you.
Speaker 2:I think it's great. Thank you so much for having me. This has been so much fun and it's something that we're both so aligned with. We're both so passionate about this and it's nice to talk to somebody that shares that same passion. It's been wonderful, thank you.
Speaker 1:For sure, and let's show our mugs. So I have this one. I love your mug too, and it's so funny because I just my husband and I just went to Costa Rica last year and this year, and we stay in a place, a little town, called Jaco, and it's a little surf town, and there is a restaurant there called Lemon Zest. Oh, I love it, and so I was sure to take a picture and I've got to put it on the circle of all of us standing in front of the sign that says Lemon Zest on it, because I thought it was so perfect Seeing lemons out in nature.
Speaker 2:I know, and I see them now all the time. I ran into a woman in the street here in Barcelona wearing a lemon outfit and I stopped her and I said like, oh my gosh, where did you get this? It's just they're everywhere now, but we're just very aware they're in our alignment.
Speaker 1:We are very aware. Well, listen, spencer, this has been so great. I know it's a little bit late, well, what is it Seven o'clock your time? Yeah, it's dinner time. Yeah, it's dinner time. Okay. Well, it is morning my time.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go take my dogs for a walk, and so I just thank you once again for being on this episode of Test those Breasts and I look forward to being on the Hairy Chin Podcast. That's right. And to my audience, thank you so much again for joining us in this new year of 2025. I really hope that you can head over to your favorite platform and rate and review this podcast. It really does make a difference. It gets it out there to so many more people and we will see you on the next episode of Test those Breasts. Bye for now. Episode of Test those Breasts. Bye for now. Also open to being a guest on other podcasts where I can add value, so please reach out if you'd like to collaborate. My contact information is in the show notes and, as a reminder, rating, reviewing and sharing this podcast will truly help build a bigger audience all over the world. I thank you for your efforts. I look forward to sharing my next episode of Test those Breasts.
