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Test Those Breasts ™️
This podcast by Jamie Vaughn is a deep-dive discussion on a myriad of breast cancer topics, such as early detection, the initial shock of diagnosis, testing/scans, treatment, loss of hair, caregiving, surgery, emotional support, and advocacy.
These episodes will include breast cancer survivors, thrivers, caregivers, surgeons, oncologists, therapists, and other specialists who can speak to many different topics.
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified health care providers, therefore does not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers.
Test Those Breasts ™️
Episode 92: Harnessing Humor & Advocacy in the Face of Adversity w/ Andrea Moulding
Breast cancer is a challenging journey shaped by personal stories and community support. Breast cancer survivor, Andrea Moulding 's story illustrates the power of humor in coping with diagnosis and survivorship while creating awareness and connection through her creative projects.
• Andrea shares her breast cancer diagnosis and treatment journey
• Discussion on the importance of humor in survivorship
• Role of community in healing and advocacy
• Andrea's creative outlets: books and podcast (Stay On The Bus and Get It Off Your Chest
• Insights on living with lymphedema and osteopenia
• Launching new initiatives for breast cancer support
Contact & Resources:
Email for podcast stories@tittytowers.com
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I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified healthcare providers, therefore may not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers .
Hello friends, welcome back to the Test those Breasts podcast. I am your host, jamie Vaughn. I'm a retired teacher of 20 years and a breast cancer thriver turned staunch, unapologetic, loud supporter and advocate for others, bringing education and awareness through a myriad of medical experts, therapists, caregivers and other survivors. A breast cancer diagnosis is incredibly overwhelming, with the mounds of information out there, and other survivors A breast cancer diagnosis is incredibly overwhelming, with the mounds of information out there, especially on Dr Google. I get it. I'm not a doctor and I know how important it is to uncover accurate information, which is my ongoing mission through my nonprofit. The podcast includes personal stories and opinions from breast cancer survivors and professional physicians, providing the most up-to-date information. At the time of recording Evidence, research and practices are always changing, so please check the date of the recording and always refer to your medical professionals for the most up-to-date information. I hope you find this podcast a source of inspiration and support from my guests. Their contact information is in the show notes, so please feel free to reach out to them. We have an enormous breast cancer community ready to support you in so many ways. Now let's listen to the next episode of Test those Breasts. Well, hello, friends, Welcome back to this episode of Test those Breasts. I am your host, jamie Vaughn, and today I'm so excited to have my friend, my breasty friend, over the pond over on the other side, andrea Moulding. Andrea and I actually connected, I believe, on LinkedIn, and we've been connected for quite some time. We've been trying to be on each other's podcast for a long time and we're finally getting to it.
Speaker 1:So Andrea was diagnosed in 2018. She had grade three HER2 positive tumor. She had National Health Service gold standard treatment chemo, radiotherapy, herceptin injections and surgery. She had a mastectomy and deep flap and a nipple reconstruction. She has the usual legacy conditions lymphedema and osteopenia During treatment.
Speaker 1:When she had time on her hands, she wrote her first novel, throwing Salt at the Devil. She then decided that all the medical information was too medical-like and scary, so she wrote Stay on the Bus. The aim was to make the information more palatable and easier to read for people going through breast cancer. Andrea's avatar is a lollipop lady to help people navigate breast cancer. She made her unique outfit with a beach ball and a pizza box. Andrea, along with her co-host, estelle Marr, launched a podcast Get it Off your Chest the Funny Side of Breast Cancer. It recently won the Independent Podcast Award for Comedy in October 2024. The goal of the podcast is to make cancer discussion easier for everyone, take away the loneliness and create a community using humor. Andrea has recently launched a YouTube channel. She has had a varied career as a probation officer, social worker and worked in large learning disability charity. She now runs a marketing agency and now she's on Test those Breasts. Hello, andrea, it's so nice to see you and chat with you, thank you so much for having me, jodi.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you and I have messaged back and forth quite a few times on LinkedIn and we've just I mean, I think it's probably been over a year since we've been connected and now here we are. We got to have a good conversation the other day for the first time and here we are, so I would love for you to share your story. You know, I always ask breast cancer survivors who on earth was Andrea before breast cancer?
Speaker 2:Well, I think that's a really, really good question. I was, I was thinking about this and I was thinking, you know, I was just one of those person people who let life kind of carry them along. You know, I was always busy. I've got twins. You know, I've got two kids. I was working full time. You know, like everybody else, I had dreams and things I wanted to do, like write a book and do all sorts of stuff, but I never took the time to stand still and sort of take a breath. So so I think that was me. I was just incredibly busy and I was all over the place. And you know, it's like before you have children, you say, what did I ever used to do with my evenings, you know? So so I think that was me. I was just all over the place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, it's really funny and interesting that every single breast cancer survivor I've talked to probably all of them, most of them anyway they were busy. They were like you know, they had a busy schedule. They, you know, whether they had kids or not, they were had a very big social calendar. They worked tons, you know, during the week and had a good activity life, you know, outdoor life, maybe they were skiers or whatever, but just always had something on their calendar. And that was totally me at that time as well. Yeah, very interesting common theme. So share with us what your breast cancer diagnosis was, what your treatments were like and all the things.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, you've kind of outlined my diagnosis. I think at the beginning I found a lump, like most people do, just dismissed it really as a sort of cyst, because my sister's got a bit of a history of that Went along to the doctor. He said, yeah, it's's probably a cyst, so I didn't think anything of it. Really, I kind of skipped off to the hospital, kind of really excited that I got a day off work.
Speaker 2:And um, then the next thing, you know, all hell breaks loose, you know, and um, you get taken to the, the quiet room where they've got the kind of faux furniture and the horrible clock, and um, you know you're in trouble really. So that was the kind of beginning. Um, from there I you have the horrendous weight of kind of 10 days after the biopsy, which is another kettle of fish, um, and then to be told, well, thursday night at five o'clock I saw my consultant and her words to me were we'll have to remove the breast and I've booked you in for Monday morning at 7 30 so I've got oh my god, yeah, so I kind of, you know, I had Friday, which was all those kind of pre-tests that you have to have, where they weigh you and tell you you're fat, and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:Saturday I had to tell the kids, which is another story in itself. Then on Sunday my mum arrived and then on the Monday morning, you know, half past six, I was driving to the hospital for a mastectomy. So I had a mastectomy, some lymph nodes out, obviously. Then I had chemo, I had some lymph involvement, so I had the kind of horrendous PET scan or whatever it's called you know, when you go through the donut, to see if it spread. That was absolutely horrible. And then I had radiotherapy and then, because I had a hormone positive tumor, I had 18 Herceptin injections over a period of time, like every three weeks, I think it was. Then I had all my lymph nodes out. I'm not quite sure if that's the right order, but yeah, it's all a bit of a blur really, but I think I got both barrels. But, like I said, I was in the gold standard NHS, so I was very lucky.
Speaker 1:So you know. It's interesting that you say that you had to wait for 10 days after your biopsy. For me it was 24 hours, and the only reason it was 24 hours is I knew my radiologist. We were friends and so he was able to let me know within 24 hours like literally 24 hours later after I had it.
Speaker 1:I do know what it's like to have to wait, because I have had biopsies before and I've had lumpectomies, so I know what it's like to to have that space of waiting. It is just so, it's like terrible.
Speaker 2:It's like you don't want the day to come. But you're in that. You're in kind of limbo land, aren't you? You can't relax nothing, nothing. You watch telly and nothing. Yeah, nothing goes in. You can't think straight. You know it's the worst. It's the worst part. It's the waiting, definitely.
Speaker 1:Well, I think once you get you know and you don't have a plan, like you it once. If you don't have a plan, you don't know what's going to happen. But yeah, it's like I didn't want to know and I did need to know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, you know exactly, but I'm a total baby. I didn't like, I can't stand stand waiting and I can't stand any of the medical. I am a total baby. I tell you.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I'm a total baby too and honestly, I think that, being that way, I think it's a strength. Honestly, I don't think that's a weakness. I think we internalize, we feel we overthink, and things like that. So I want to say that that's a strength, andrea, well, I will take that. And, by the way, crying, I cried a lot. Oh, I was a nightmare, yeah, see, and then we say that, oh, I was a nightmare, I was a total mess. But actually it's very healing to cry. We need to cry, we need to let it out, and so I find that society makes us feel like we are weak, overreacting, cry too much, all the things, and I say, fuck that.
Speaker 1:I don't even no way.
Speaker 2:I'm a fuck that I don't even no way.
Speaker 1:I'm a completely different when you, when you know when, when I ask who people were before breast cancer, I was a lot the same way that you were and I have always spoken out against societal norms. But I actually am more speaking out against societal norms now, after breast cancer, because I just think it's all a bunch of bullshit.
Speaker 2:So anyway, for me it's that stuff around oh, you've got to fight it, and like, like I say in my book, um, stay strong, be strong. It was like you know, if you have a heart attack, they don't say we'll beat this heart attack together, let's fight it. You know, it's just like why is it with cancer that you've got to kind of? You know, don't want to sort of kind of become a knight you know what I mean and start fighting cancer back? You know, stay strong so okay.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about. You had said something about your lymph nodes. You had a lot of lymph nodes removed, yeah, so tell us about post-cancer. What are you dealing with now?
Speaker 2:Well, I've got a kind of lymphedema and for those of you who don't know what that is, it's the lymph nodes are like a kind of taxi service that if you cut yourself they take all the kind of germs away. Um, I hope that's a good explanation. Um, and so every now and again I get a kind of massive sausage hand that looks like I've got kind of a massive sausage on every hand and I can't bend it. And, and the NHS National Health Service, they give you this thing. They call it a sleeve. It's like American tan tights. It's absolutely disgusting and you get a little glove, oh you have one
Speaker 2:yes, I call it my gauntlet, which again is my knight, you know, fighting breast cancer, but yeah, and I have to wear that every now and again. But, um, when I broke my ankle, which you know, having having had cancer, not being able to go out, it was then COVID, when I couldn't go out, and then I went out to celebrate when COVID left, had too much red wine in the noodle bar, fell over and broke my ankle so I couldn't go out again. Oh no, but when I had my zimmer frame, um, my lymphedema was, um, really managed well, because I was constantly using my, my arm all the time. So, yeah, I mean I can, it's not that bad. I mean, I've seen people who've got, you know, very, very difficult ones and I'm a queen, you know it the sausage hand strikes.
Speaker 2:Now and I'm a drama queen, you know it. The sausage hand strikes now and again, but it's not all the time. And you know I can. I sit there with my arm watching telly, you know, and it'll it helps it. So I've got that. Um. The other thing I've got is um, osteop osteopenia, which is um, the one before osteoporosis which everyone's heard of. Um, which is um. It's caused by chemo. Basically it kind of wrecks your bones density. So my bone density is quite poor. So I'm trying to. I've just joined the gym and I'm going to start kind of weight bearing. I take the dog out twice a day, but it's a Jack Russell, so it just sniffs everything. So I don't actually do much walking. You know sniffs every blade of grass about 10 meters, but it is something you can manage with, as you know probably, and your listeners know, with nutrition and exercise. So that's what the next thing I'm going to do is is start kind of really looking after myself.
Speaker 1:It's so important for women to take care of their bones and the and do what you know weights and things like that. Um, I actually did go get a bone density test after chemo and it came back in the normal range. It was fine. But I also interviewed someone here in town who runs Evoke Warriors. Her name is Mena and she was talking about how women need to make sure they are, you know, lifting weights, some sort of a weight exercise on their, their full body, to take care of their bones. It's so important to be able to do that about four or five times a week at least. So good for you for doing that, Okay. So, and then I want to go back to when you just said that you were a drama queen with your sausage hand. Yeah, I, I don't. I, I would say that that any normal person would look at that and probably be a little freaked out by that.
Speaker 2:So, drama queen, there's another social norm that needs smash it, man, we're very self-effacing and we say things like that yeah, I actually.
Speaker 1:So I had three lymph nodes removed on the breast cancer side and then one on the other side, and I've actually had swelling in my left arm, um, and it freaked me out. I was like you know. So I mean, I just know that you're not supposed to get tattoos, you're not supposed to go in in a too, you know, too hot of water Um, you know things like that and and also wear a sleeve when you're working out, and so I've got my sleeves.
Speaker 1:Um, there are just so many things you cannot do when you've had lymph nodes removed. So, so important, so important to to get that education.
Speaker 2:Um when you've had lymph nodes removed.
Speaker 1:So, so important, so important to get that education when you've had breast cancer, after breast cancer, to know the things that you should not do and I have interviewed a couple of people who have talked about lymphedema and all the things you shouldn't do.
Speaker 2:So and also sorry to interrupt you, jamie, but also I think we need to mention cellulitis. Anyone who's had their lymph nodes out they're susceptible to that, and I've had it twice and, um, it's like a kind of burn. It looks like you've burnt yourself on a kettle or something and I went to the doctor and the doctor said, oh, you've got a blood clot. And sent me to Leicester Wall Infirmary A&E, which was a nightmare. I was there for nine and a half hours only to be told that I didn't have a blood clot, it was cellulitis. So the next time I got it, I went to the doctors and I said it's not a blood clot, I've got cellulitis. I need some antibiotics. So you know, it's good to be vigilant against that as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, vigilant and also advocating for yourself. The more we know, the better, and we want to make sure that we're understanding that. It's not disrespecting a doctor if you question them, but also going and getting second opinions. That's really important to be able to do that. Yeah, because there's a bit of a difference between cellulitis and a blood clot. Yes, I'm just saying right, all right, so let's talk about what you're doing in your survivorship. So, first of all, you wrote a couple of books and you have this wonderful, funny podcast that I'm excited to interview on, coming up here shortly. We got you. We got you Love it.
Speaker 2:Tell us more about what you're doing in your survivorship, right, well, I think as we kind of touched on before, I wrote the book Stay on the Bus, which was written because, like I said before, I couldn't look at any of the medical information. The NHS, you know, wonderful, wonderful organization, would never criticize them. But the information they give you says things like they have a tumor and a mass and they're all like horrible, horrible words. I mean cancer's bad enough, you know, they smack you with tumor.
Speaker 2:Um, and I am not the sort of person who goes and kind of googles everything and, you know, does a spreadsheet about all the different research documents. I, I just go, I can't look. I can't look, just tell me what to do, tell me what to do. And but you do need to know that information because you've got to be in control of your own health and you've got to be able to advocate for yourself.
Speaker 2:So what I felt was missing was some kind of book that told you all the information you needed to know, made you laugh, didn't kind of? You know, soft soap is that the right word? Told you. You know you might get cellulitis, you know it's very dangerous, but you know I say cellulitis it sounds like some sort of kind of spread that you'd have on avocado toast, but actually it can be, you know, quite dangerous. So what I did with the book was because one of the challenges is not all breast cancers are the same and not everyone has the same treatment plan. I broke it down into three sections Diagnosis treatment, which is obviously the kind of big bit, and then, once they cut the apron strings, when they say, ok, you've been here every day for the last year, oh, we'll see you in a year.
Speaker 2:Bye, you can't stop freaking out. So that's how I split it up, so you can kind of dip into the bits you need to know about. It's got loads of funny stories and stupid stuff in it and, as you say, it's about navigating breast cancer. So I've got a kind of red bus on the front. In fact here's one I made earlier, so that's me hanging onto the bus with the kind of boobs in the background and I love it.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, will you show that again? I need to see that again. Ok, if you're watching this on YouTube, you'll know what I'm saying. That is a fantastic cover, I love it.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I need to have that book.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love it, I will send you one.
Speaker 2:I'll send you this very copy.
Speaker 1:I think it's great.
Speaker 2:When I had the person, michelle, who did the cover, I told her what I wanted. I drove a really poor picture of a bus and she made it all good and then she sent it back and I sent her an email back saying I need more boobs on it. So there's boobs on the bus, there's the lights of boobs, there's boobs on the side. You know the mountains of boobs. Yes, that's the kind of funniest thing she'd ever kind of got as a kind of steer on a book cover. So, um, it's perfect.
Speaker 1:It's perfect. It's kind of like my logo. I don't know if you've seen my logo, but they're boobs. Yeah, yeah, the owl, um. So I had a former colleague of mine, um, he designed that for me and I didn't even ask him to, I just said, look, I'm, I'm doing a breast cancer podcast and it's called test those breasts. And and he's like, oh, he goes, let me play around with it. And he comes up with that. And the reason he did the owl is because the owl is my mom's spirit animal. So when she died, yeah, I saw a huge owl the next night. And now I see, we see owls all the time. But he remembered that and then he made him into breasts. So I thought, oh, how clever.
Speaker 2:And also the wisdom of the owl as well.
Speaker 1:So you use humor and to help others, which I think is so important.
Speaker 1:You know, anytime we're going through any kind of thing traumatic, like right now in the United States you and I talked about this yet the other day and you guys are all watching from over there is thinking, oh my God, what the fuck is going on with the United States of America, and it's just, it's horrifying.
Speaker 1:And I am not afraid to say that we have a lot of good community here and we talk about making sure that you are using humor and making sure that you are including joy in your life, doing the things that you love to do go to the wine country with your friends, go skiing, walk your dogs, use some humor. So we know that those things are helpful in traumatic times like this. So I appreciate that and I've been watching you guys and I was like I really need to get in touch with these two. But then I thought to myself but I don't know if I have anything really funny to say you know like I mean, I have anything really funny to say you know like I mean, I do have funny things to say, but I bet everybody does.
Speaker 2:Everybody does so, um, I think, jamie, you're talking about our podcast. Um, get it off your chest. The funny side of breast cancer, which, um Estelle is my publisher. She basically, you know we were phoning each other up having all these professional conversations about book. Well, they weren't very professionaloning each other up having all these professional conversations about book Well, they weren't very professional. Actually, we ended up having a glass of wine kind of on the phone and we're best friends now.
Speaker 2:You know she was a breast cancer survivor and we just started telling each other all these like hilarious stories that happened to you, because they do happen to you when you're having treatment. All sorts of things happen. And I just said to her you know, we've got to do a podcast about this, it'd be really funny. So we just did it and we had no idea what we were doing and some of them I can't even listen to. You know, they're really quite embarrassing, but you've just got to power on. And, yeah, you know we did it and since we've been doing it.
Speaker 2:I think the main aim of it is that when you tell people you've got cancer, they say, oh, I'm really sorry you've got cancer.
Speaker 2:You know, they almost whisper it, because in our society, you know, especially Brits we don't talk about things like that. It's all stiff up a lip and if you can't talk about it then it's very isolating. But if you bring in humour and you are kind of outrageous with it and people are laughing with you, then you can start having conversations about all of these things, and so we think that's really healthy. And also, you know, if you're in a town, you know like we have things like Maggie Centres and that, but they're only in the big cities. And if you're in a rural area, or even if you're not in a rural area I'm not really in a rural area but I'm not really near a big town there's nowhere, there's no kind of community there. So if you can hear people going through the same sort of kind of trials and tribulations as yourself, then it just makes you laugh and you just think you're part of a big community.
Speaker 1:So that's why we did it. Really, I love it, it's perfect.
Speaker 2:But since then I'm actually in the process of setting up what's called a community interest company or CIC, because I think wonderful as the NHS is, national Health Service is there are some gaps in provision. You know like they fix you, like you're a broken table. So you go there and I'm very grateful to them because they've obviously saved my life, but they fix you and they look at you like you're a you know. Well, we'll stick this here and we'll do this. It's all very perfunctory and I think that as a person, when you're going through that, there's all the emotional side of stuff, there's all stuff that they don't really meet those needs and that's because they don't get given enough money. You know the NHS is, you know it's creaking at the seams and it's an amazing organisation, but they don't have money for it.
Speaker 2:So myself and a couple of breast cancer survivors, we've, we're putting together a community interest company at the moment. We want to go and look where the needs are, with the needs that aren't met by right, by the um, nhs, and then we're going to do kind of workshops and I've also I'm going to do a conference, an international conference, but it's not going to be a conference conference. It's going to be like having comedians and fashion show and I'm going to have the podcast on live there and people can come and they can go into little rooms and meet each other and I've been kind of gifted the software for that, so you know learning how to use that, so you said it'll be that, so you know, learning how to use that software is a whole other trauma.
Speaker 1:So you said it will be international, so are you going to be doing it from where you are?
Speaker 2:so people can chime in. Yeah, I want to call it a kind of huddle or a fireside chat for those people that have been diagnosed. So there will be kind of two stages where you can have speakers coming and giving people information. But also I don't want it to be all kind of uptight, I want it to be very funny, I want people to enjoy it, I want it to be an opportunity for people to meet people and make connections, and that's something I've got planned for next year, basically, though it's gonna it's going to be it's gonna be online.
Speaker 2:It's gonna be. It's oh, it's gonna be online okay so.
Speaker 1:I would highly. Are you gonna have people um other, like non-profits that are very helpful for the breast cancer community be involved?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean it's, it's in. I've been planning it for about a year. Yes, yes, I will speak. I will speak.
Speaker 1:And I will also recommend that you get in touch with Know your Lemons, if you haven't already, because they're such a fun, quirky organization and really fun way to learn about breast cancer and all of that stuff. So, yeah, really really a good idea, andrea. I can't wait until that happens.
Speaker 2:Well, now I've said it on your podcast. It has to happen, doesn't it? So I've put pressure on myself Now.
Speaker 1:it absolutely has to happen. It's like it's solid, like I can't edit any of this out. No, no, and it's so good. We need to have platforms. You know where people can go and get you know accurate information. I feel like it is the duty for us to be able to make sure that people are getting accurate information, so I think that that let yeah, I was gonna say I think we could even do it over two days.
Speaker 2:We could do one, four different time zones, because obviously you know it's six, you know it's in the evening here where it's in the morning for you. But so we could almost do it in a rolling way and because it wouldn't cost, we wouldn't charge for it. But if we had sponsors that you know, or I could get the money through cic. Obviously I'll give my time free, but you know, getting speakers in and things like that I just think it well, like dr liz.
Speaker 1:Dr Liz would be really good on there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's amazing.
Speaker 1:We have such an amazing community. So your YouTube channel Tell us what's up with your.
Speaker 2:YouTube channel, right? Well, I've literally just launched it. So you know, if you go on it you're not going to see like millions and millions of followers, but the whole idea behind it is really like the book. So with the book everything's in kind of chunks, very easy to understand. So you know, if you, if you've got a seroma where you get a kind of buildup of fluid, you know I'm going to have like a pint of Newcastle brown ale, so this is what it looks like. You know it's got a frothy top, but don't drink it. You know, and this is what it is, and this is when you get it and this is how they'll fix it.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to make kind of little videos about things like that and cellulitis. My next one is going to be about lymphedema actually, and I've got these new gloves which come up to here that you can put your hand through, kind of you know bushes of holly and it doesn't scratch them and things like that, and just say you know, get these washing up gloves. They look like my children say Mum, are you going to commit a murder? You look like you've chopped up a body. Because I don't wear like normal washing up gloves. Mine are kind of super duper black. They look like I'm about to kind of cut somebody up, so they call them my murderer gloves, so just things like that.
Speaker 2:Really, I want the YouTube channel to be there so that for people like me that are, you know, can't look at anything, you know, it is a massive shock. They say, right, I need to find out about x, I'll go and have a look on andrea's youtube channel and I'll get the information. It won't be too scary and I'll know what I need to do. Um, so that's the aim of it. As I say, I've only just launched it, so I've got about three videos on there, but I plan to to um do kind of two a week and really build it up and get it there as a resource for people.
Speaker 2:I've recently also launched my website, which again, is all fun it's all meant to be very fun um, and I'm going to have a big resource page on there. Um, that will that, again, people can dip into. So I've got a course about forest bathing which is about mental health and how to cope with it, so that you can kind of practically just take that and go and do it. Um, so you know how to avoid insects and how to make your own, you know, cream and all that sort of stuff, really just just stuff that you don't get told. That's very useful to know.
Speaker 1:I think that's great. You and I have such a um, we are so similar in so many ways. I'm so glad that we finally got to talk because I, you know, with my, with my test, those breasts, um, I'm a nonprofit and I have a resource page and I always take my guests resources and put them on my resource page, Um, so I I love that. Um, I love that you're going to do those visuals too.
Speaker 1:I remember the one time I watch Dr Liz's videos all the time, Like one time she did a video with a cup of coffee and the whole and showed us the what dense breasts looks like. Um, well, she put milk in it and it's like this is what we see when we do. You know, like mammograms, you can't see anything when you have dense breasts, so you always have to do something that's like another screening to be able to see things, and that's what I've always done. They've always done a diagnostics mammogram with a ultrasound and that's how they found the associated mass and the groupings of calcifications. I'm a very visual person, so seeing things like that will be so helpful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it's a work in progress. I mean, the trouble is, when you work full time, you've got to earn a living. And it's like you know, I really really feel drawn to setting up this community interest company because I do think there is so much so gaps in the nhs provision and that you know they're amazing, they, they put you back together and but sometimes I think people need a little bit more. You know, like they say to you oh, by the way, you'll go through the menopause. That's kind of you know.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, just all right, I guess oh, yeah, yeah, you'll go through the menopause anyway, you know you'll lose your hair and you'll go through menopause and you'll look like shit.
Speaker 1:You know but yeah no, big deal you know you'll be fine did you lose all your hair too?
Speaker 2:oh, yeah, I used to have like really really curly hair and it's come back kind of wavy. I've lost my love it. I used to look like charles the first, you know, with like really ringletty hair and it's all gone. It's all gone. But you know, cold caps. Um, again, I don't think I got much information about cold caps, but I think with kind of thick, curly hair they don't work that well. But I don't really know and I don't want to say that out there because it's probably people shouting at the screen. Yes, we do.
Speaker 1:And not everyone's hair comes back. I actually thought about doing that before, but everything was moving so fast that I didn't even have time to order the stuff and it was very expensive and all the things. I just didn't know enough about it. But as I was going along, I actually saw a couple of people doing the cold capping as I when I would be in like the infusion center and stuff like that and they said that it worked. They lost some of their hair, but it worked. You know fairly well, but it is very expensive and I watched the person who was with them doing the cold capping for them and it is a ton of work. Yeah, tons of work. Yeah, it's just I don't know, I just went ahead and just lost my hair and then I just I got used to being bald yeah, me too.
Speaker 2:I rocked that bald. Look, you know, I only ever wore my wig. I mean, I don't know what wigs are like in America, but we get ours on the NHS. Mine was horrible and I only ever wore it to parents evening. Otherwise, I kind of rocked my chemo hat and massive shades and my sister so this is a book my sister went onto eBay and bought me all these kind of really really funky hats and they arrived kind of six months after my hair had grown back and they were so tiny they'd kind of fit. A kind of six months after my hair had grown back and they were so tiny they'd kind of fit a kind of tiny doll. Do you know what I mean? So, um, be careful, if you're buying chemo hats, that you buy them from a reputable seller, because you know mine was so tiny. But uh no, I, I didn't, I didn't. I didn't mind having a bald head. After a while once I kind of got used to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it kind of felt good I mean, I was in the middle of summer, so it was hot anyway and I did get a wig and it's a super cute wig. And then my son-in-law's mom gave me her wig. I never wore the wig ever. I only wore like turbans or beanies or went bald. And it wasn't until after I started growing my hair back that we went to a murder mystery dinner with some friends and I wore the wig and it was super cute, you know. But I just never wore it when I had cancer and stuff. And I did get some really super cute beanies and turbans.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I rocked it too with the big glasses, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1:Okay, so one of the last questions I like to ask is you know, because my audience is very well aware that my mission is to reach people who've never had breast cancer. I think that that we need to reach people who've never had breast cancer, especially even if they're like in their 20s and 30s. What kind of kind of a big piece of advice would you give to people who don't have breast cancer on their radar and that they should, maybe?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that the you know in society, breast cancer, because it's the you know, you know this, the c word cancer. We don't talk about it. We need to talk about it. You know it affects one in I don't know four or eight women. I can't remember the facts.
Speaker 1:I think I'm different, depending over here in the united states it's one in eight yeah, one in eight say so.
Speaker 2:you know, if you're out with your mates in the pub, it's pretty likely that out of you eight people, one of you is going to get breast cancer. And it is so important to be vigilant and to check your breasts, as you know, as everyone says, and if you don't know how to do it, because you know it's not something that you're taught at school, even though I think it should be Go on YouTube, have a look. There's plenty of videos out there that show you how to do it, and go to the doctor if you find anything unusual. It's not just a lump, it's all sorts of things you know and test those breasts have got a fantastic test your lemons, I think it is, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Know your lemons. Know your lemons and test those breasts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, Exactly so. Yeah, I would say, no matter what age you are, you know, go to your mammograms when they come in Over here. You have to be over 50. But you know, it's something that's affecting people a lot younger, and I think in Canada they've just reduced it to 40, haven't they? But yeah, I mean, we have a responsibility for our own health and, you know, make sure that it's a combination.
Speaker 1:I never asked what your age was how old were you when you were diagnosed 52. Okay, so I was 54. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I've interviewed a ton of people who were in their late twenties, early thirties pregnant.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Wow, and yeah, I mean the chances are. If you do find something, it probably is a cyst. But just go and get it checked, you know, don't leave it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, had I actually I actually gone in a couple of months prior to getting that notification that I needed to make an appointment. I probably would have been stage zero or one.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I did feel a lump. I did feel zingers and hot spots. Yeah, but that lump I should have called, I should have called Well hindsight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a very good thing you still have it is, and you know the other thing is is that you know you say that you have to work to make money and yet you are still out there rocking the survivorship advocacy work for breast cancer patients and I just think that's wonderful and bringing awareness and all of the things and humor and we are so grateful that you're out there and I'm just grateful that I got to. We finally got to meet.
Speaker 2:We did and we will be meeting again soon because you're coming on my podcast.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I would like to collaborate too.
Speaker 1:I mean, I would love to be able to be part of your idea that's sitting in your head right now. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, now I've said it out loud, as I say, I mean I'm literally I've got my two directors from a CIC I think there's a real need, especially where you are at the moment with you know, know what's happening. Um, there are people in lots of different communities who needs are just not being met and um, I think also the voice of the patient, you know, is so important. Um, I love my doctors and all of them. They're amazing. But it's so useful to speak to people who've been through it as well, and and the sort of support you get from the community, you know it's amazing. I've made some fantastic friends, you know, through through. It's nice to be called an advocate. I never really think of myself as an advocate because I don't really do much really. I've just kind of do the podcast and written the book, but I'm not kind of out talking to people. But I think I want to Do.
Speaker 1:you know you're bringing humor to people, you're bringing real information to people, so that is advocacy work. I think that you know there's so many different ways that we can advocate for people and that doesn't have to be in person or anything like that. I think that we are all, and also you know your website with resources on there. That is advocacy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, thank you, there you have it.
Speaker 1:There you have it and so I hereby crown you with the advocacy the advocacy work yeah I hereby tell you I was going to introduce you to my dog, grizelda, but she, grizelda, I was going to have her come up here and meet you. She is my little stinker who ate my AirPods overnight and I had to use my husband's my husband's AirPods but she must be outside. But anyway, I was going to introduce you to her, but not a big deal, andrea. I am just. Thank you again for taking the time. I know that it's late, your time, we're eight hours apart morning here evening there and I look forward to being on your podcast.
Speaker 1:And is there anything you'd like to leave us with before we disconnect?
Speaker 2:Well, I did. I did kind of think that, for those people that have just been diagnosed with breast cancer, all those people that are going through that dreadful people that have just been diagnosed with breast cancer, all those people that are going through that dreadful stage that you go through where you think your life will never be the same again and it's almost too much to bear, I think and I've spoken to a lot of people about this, having breast cancer, you know, yes, it's tough, tough, but it also gives you a little bit of growth as well. It gives you that time to kind of stop because you can't go and out being kind of hectic. So when you can't go out, you have to go inwards and you pull out reserves you don't know you have. You do things you never thought you would do.
Speaker 2:I never thought I'd write a book, I never thought I'd make my own podcast. You know and here I am talking to you You've done about a thousand podcasts compared to me. So you know, I just want to say, don't kind of where you are now. You will, you will fly, you will use the community and, and you know, just remember that it won't always be this bad.
Speaker 1:For sure, and it does help a lot to get out there and talk to the community. I do not, I do not recommend people doom Google or you know or not connect with the community, because otherwise you're just going to. It's just not going to fare well. I was going down that road in the beginning and I reached out and I became involved with the community and so I think that really helped out a lot. Speaking of your book, did you think of a passage?
Speaker 2:This is something I wrote about with some of the things that you can go to, yeah, so I'll do this one. Okay, do you want me to start reading it? This is about one of the charities that the NHS put you in touch with, and what they do is they get a bunch of people like when you, when you're kind of completely bald, you've got no eyelashes, no, you know no eyebrows, and my eyelashes have never come back, I look like a kind of lizard and you know blotchy, you know what it's like, and you're kind of like, oh my God, they give you this place called. There's a charity called Look Good, feel Better. Look Good, feel Better, and it's amazing. You go there it's like a half day and they give you a kind of big bag of very expensive goodies and then they do their makeup and you get to meet all the other women and then you just chat really, and it's all about the chat really, but they show you how to do your makeup and all that sort of stuff. Oh, fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'll just read this Given the enormity of your diagnosis, the complexities of what makeup to apply seems trivial and self-obsessed. I was lucky enough to get a place on look good feel better workshop. They describe themselves as a leading cancer support charity aimed at boosting the physical and emotional well-being of people living with cancer. They provide workshops covering skin care and makeup, grooming, hair loss, hair wig advice and nail care. I've put the details in the helpful link section. Underfunded as all charities are, there were limited places and I had to wait three months before I found myself in a room with 10 other women all clutching gift bags of surprisingly posh goodies of makeup and perfume.
Speaker 2:The volunteers take you through practical steps of how to apply foundation, eye makeup and skincare products. As I had an eye infection, I set out for some of it, but it was fun to watch everyone else. The most hilarious thing was drawing on eyebrows. You might think this is easy. Think again. The team of volunteers who are all makeup professionals easy. Think again. The team of volunteers who are all makeup professionals spent ages meticulously showing us how to do it. It all looked easy and seamless. Then it was our turn. Shakily holding the pencil, we tried to follow the contours of our eyes, as we had been instructed. Triumphantly, the woman next to me threw down her brown pencil and asked me what I thought of her attempt. Without thinking or even trying to hide my horror, I I blurted out that she looked really evil. She got like and I've got that picture there- and then wait.
Speaker 1:Show that again, show that on the screen.
Speaker 2:So our youtube people finish. I'll just finish this bit because it okay, okay, um, heavy-handed and inept, we look like a permanently surprised bunch of pantomime villains. Luckily, she had a sense of humor and we spent the next 10 minutes in hysterics. To be honest, the experience of meeting other women and having a laugh was just as valuable as the as the makeup lesson. So so a permanently surprised pantomime villains, that's what we look like.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness if you're, if you're, if you're not on youtube, go over to youtube. You got to see this picture that she used and that's what the book is.
Speaker 2:It's just loads of really stupid little stories and things that happen really stay on the bus stay on the bus. Stay on the bus I.
Speaker 1:Stay on the bus. Stay on the bus. I have that all in my in the show notes. I've got your YouTube channel, your website, your books and your podcast. Get it off your chest, and Andrea. Thank you so much. This has been such a wonderful conversation, very enlightening conversation, very enlightening, humorous.
Speaker 2:I feel like, uh, you're like one of my new breasty friends and I just appreciate you, so if you're ever in the uk, we'll um we'll have to meet up absolutely.
Speaker 2:I've met so many fabulous people I would love that and I love the uk yes, well, you're invited to my house anytime you like and, um, when I put my conference together, I will be on the phone to you and, if you send me your address, I'll send you a copy of my book please head over to your favorite podcast platform and rate and review this podcast.
Speaker 1:It really does help get the word out to the rest of the world, and we will see you next time on the next episode of Test those Breasts. Bye for now, friends. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Test those Breasts. I hope you got some great much needed information that will help you with your journey. As always, I am open to guests to add value to my show and I'm also open to being a guest on other podcasts where I can add value. So please reach out if you'd like to collaborate. My contact information is in the show notes and, as a reminder, rating, reviewing and sharing this podcast will truly help build a bigger audience all over the world. I thank you for your efforts. I look forward to sharing my next episode of Test those Breasts. Thank you,
