Test Those Breasts ™️

Ep. 95 (Part 1): Boob Dimples & TV Angels: How a Chance Encounter Saved Luan Lawrenson-Wood's Life

• Jamie Vaughn

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When Luan Lawrenson-Woods saw a raw TV interview about metastatic breast cancer, she had no idea it would save her life. At 46, she booked a mammogram she wouldn’t have been called for until 50—and learned she had an aggressive, rare lobular breast cancer. It had been silently growing, showing no lump and only a hidden dimple in her breast crease she never noticed.

In this candid conversation, the award-winning Australian patient advocate shares her path from diagnosis in 2017 through chemo, mastectomy, radiotherapy, and DIEP flap reconstruction, to becoming a fierce voice for women navigating healthcare systems. She opens up about ongoing PTSD, the power of self-advocacy, the role her marriage played in her recovery, and the full-circle moment of meeting the man whose TV appearance inspired her to get checked.

Check out Luan’s podcast Regarding Me for more on how to speak up, be heard, and put yourself at the center of your care.

📞 Contact Luan Lawrenson-Woods

📚 Resources

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I am not a doctor and not all information in this podcast comes from qualified healthcare providers, therefore may not constitute medical advice. For personalized medical advice, you should reach out to one of the qualified healthcare providers interviewed on this podcast and/or seek medical advice from your own providers .


Speaker 1:

Hello friends, Welcome back to the Test those Breasts podcast. I am your host, Jamie Vaughn. I'm a retired teacher of 20 years and a breast cancer thriver turned staunch, unapologetic, loud supporter and advocate for others, bringing education and awareness through a myriad of medical experts, therapists, caregivers and other survivors. A breast cancer diagnosis is incredibly overwhelming, with the mounds of information out there, and other survivors A breast cancer diagnosis is incredibly overwhelming, with the mounds of information out there, especially on Dr Google. I get it. I'm not a doctor and I know how important it is to uncover accurate information, which is my ongoing mission through my nonprofit. The podcast includes personal stories and opinions from breast cancer survivors and professional physicians, providing the most up-to-date information. At the time of recording Evidence, research and practices are always changing, so please check the date of the recording and always refer to your medical professionals for the most up-to-date information. I hope you find this podcast a source of inspiration and support from my guests. Their contact information is in the show notes, so please feel free to reach out to them. We have an enormous breast cancer community ready to support you in so many ways.

Speaker 1:

Now let's listen to the next episode of Test those Breasts. Well, hello, friends, Welcome back to this episode of Test those Breasts. I am your host, Jamie Vaughn, and today I am absolutely thrilled to have my guest, Luanne Lawrenson-Woods, on my show. So Luanne is an award-winning patient advocate, speaker and podcast host. She first made waves with Rewritten Me, Australia's only podcast about reconstruction after mastectomy, before launching Regarding Me, the go-to podcast for women who want to speak up, be heard and get the care they need. After her own experience with breast cancer, Luanne recognized the gaps in support for women navigating complex healthcare systems. Now she helps women build the confidence, skills and language to advocate for themselves, whether they're newly diagnosed, managing ongoing care or figuring out what comes next. Through honest conversations and practical tools, she empowers women to put themselves back at the center of their care, with a little help from SSAS and we're going to talk about that in a little bit too. Hi Lou-Ann, how are you, I'm good.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, hi. Thank you so much for inviting me to be on the podcast. I'm thrilled and I'm honored.

Speaker 1:

Well, I'm honored too. You and I have been following each other for quite some time and you really have inspired me. I see how you inspire other people. I have listened to your podcast and I've watched video clips of you and I just I feel like you're kind of my sister from another mystery over on the in Australia and I, you know, I've wanted you to be on my podcast for quite some time and here we are so, oh yeah, I want to say as well I just think the work that you've been doing is fabulous.

Speaker 2:

Um, I have a podcast but I don't do weekly drops and I don't do it for the length of time that. I know that you did it before you had your season break, and to see that and know how much work is involved, hats off to you, jamie.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you. Well, as you know, I had to take a bit of a hiatus back in February, going through some crazy things really in our country, as you know, you've been watching and I really had to sort of gather myself because you know we've dealt with a lot of issues with possible healthcare, you know, like Medicaid cuts and cuts to women's healthcare, which is very near and dear to us, cuts to cancer research, so these are things that really keep me up at night. So I really had to step back, give myself a break, give myself grace and forgive myself. And then somebody said one time to me you know, jamie, seasons like on Netflix, they, you know, take breaks, they have seasons, so you're allowed to take a break.

Speaker 2:

But I am back. You are back and you know, and I think I think it's wonderful that you honored yourself there. I mean, we, we we're going to be talking a bit about self-advocacy, but you advocated for yourself as a patient advocate, because you are a patient advocate out there advocating on behalf of women who've had a breast cancer diagnosis, and I think for you to honor that and recognize it is wonderful. Um cause, you know we can't. We can't sort of water from an empty well, can we? Or, as they say, what's the other one? That, like when you're on that, put your mask on first when you're on the airplane if something goes on? So I think it's wonderful that you acknowledge that and and yeah, and we're kind and gentle to yourself as well.

Speaker 1:

Yes, well, we all know where stress and trauma and all the things lead to sometimes with health, and so I did recognize that so well. I want to talk all about you You've done so many great things and but first I want to tell our audience, I want you to share with our audience, who Luann was before breast cancer, because the stories are so interesting to me. I know that when we are thinking back, like one year down the road after our diagnosis and 10 years down the road or whatever, our kind of vision of what was happening to us beforehand sort of evolves, and so I just want to know who you were. We were all such different people. Who was Luanne?

Speaker 2:

This is such a good question, isn't it? Yeah, and it takes you into a place that is. It is beautiful to look back and see what life was like beforehand. Well, as listeners might be able to tell, even though I live in Australia, I don't have an Australian accent, so I'm originally from the UK and I was diagnosed in 2017, but I'd been living in Australia since 2013. And I'd moved here with my husband, vinny, to study at the University of Sydney. I studied cultural studies, gender and cultural studies, and once I'd completed that, I went back to community engagement work and marketing engagement, which I'd done previously in the UK.

Speaker 2:

I have a real passion for equity of access to information, and one of the organizations I worked for for was in health. It was helping, uh, young people school children actually gain access to information about health. Um, it's quite well known in Australia. It's called life education. They use a, a giraffe puppet, to get their message across. Yeah, it's quite fun, but it was about educating you know little ones from about healthy diet, exercise and stuff like that, but done in a fun way.

Speaker 2:

So I was doing some of that work there, but I'd really started to reflect on what I wanted to do and I actually was in the middle of a career pivot shall we use that word? It's a bit of a triggery word after COVID, but I'd been doing that work and I actually started to reflect on what is it I wanted to do. And I had actually gone back to do a second master's. I was doing a master's in information studies and I was also working under contract for an organization called NIDA, which is the National Institute of Dramatic Art here in Australia in their information and records department. So I was really starting to look to shift into specifically working in that information space. Ease of access, digital access for anyone who wanted to access that.

Speaker 1:

Did you? I'm curious did you ever have any kind of education or thought in your mind about getting breast cancer someday?

Speaker 2:

Not at all, and I didn't really know anyone who'd had breast cancer I think somebody may have many years ago, when I was at work, one of the places that I'd worked but no, breast cancer wasn't something that concerned me, I didn't dwell on or anything like that I had. No, there was no family history I don't have. I now know I don't have any of the genetic mutations that increase, you know, inherited risk of cancer. So no, it was nothing that I'd really had experience of or thought about too much. What was interesting, though, you know, I'd always thought maybe, if I was diagnosed with some kind of threatening illness or, you know, health challenge, I always thought I'd absolutely disintegrate. I just thought I'd be a heap on the floor and look, I'm not saying I wasn't at times, but but. But I always thought like I was this you know cup half empty kind of person, Um, and, as it transpired, I wasn't Okay.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So that's what I am so intrigued by is that sometimes we look at ourselves and before you were a half you know half empty, and you're probably more of a, at least a half full now. Right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So walk us through how you found out about your breast cancer. How old were you?

Speaker 2:

Tell us all the things, all the things In 2017, I was doing my contract work and I was just started studying and I was that year.

Speaker 2:

I was just generally unwell a lot and I just kept getting chest infections or you know know. I remember going to have like an x-ray for something just to check that out and I just generally kept being unwell recurrent chest infections, coughs, all that kind of stuff. I hadn't noticed anything unusual with my breasts and I just kept being unwell and I was having to take time off work and I was under contract as well, so that's like a temporary contract kind of thing, so I didn't get paid if I wasn't working. So I was starting to get quite frustrated with this. And then I just turned 46.

Speaker 2:

And I was watching the TV one night and a guy came on the television. He's pretty well known in Australia, he's called Samuel Johnson and he was talking on the television. That's pretty well. He's pretty well known in Australia. It's called Samuel Johnson and he was talking on the TV about the death of his sister, connie, and she died of metastatic breast cancer. Now he's a bit of a national treasure, I guess. In Australia. He was an actor and done things, but I didn't know him for that. I just him on the tv, saw him as the brother of of Connie who died, and they were talking about love, your sister, this charity, and she just died.

Speaker 2:

It was a really raw interview that I was watching and from that interview I learned that mammograms were free in Australia for women over 40. Now we have a routine screening program here but, um, you are not called for that screening until you're 50. So I wouldn't have been called for another four years. So I learned that mammograms were free for over 40s and I just thought, oh, do you know what? I'm just going to take myself off for a mammogram. It was a bit of a punt. I was just like it's just going to be one of those things I'm just going to tick off, feeling generally unwell. Let just going to be one of those things I'm just going to tick off, feeling generally unwell. Let's go and get that checked out, you know, and off, I trotted um to do that and I was absolutely floored when I was called back to say that they'd found something and they wanted me to do a biopsy.

Speaker 2:

I was in shock, and I mean we're all in shock, but I hadn't. There was no inkling, there was nothing that I'd that I'd noticed, um, and I was called back for a biopsy core biopsy and there was actually numerous areas of concern in my breast. So I actually had quite a few biopsies um, yes, that's so painful and one of them hit my chest wall. It was a bit like you ever see Pulp Fiction when Uma Thurman kind of oh, yes, yes, I remember that scene and um, it was a really.

Speaker 2:

It was really heartbreaking for both me and my husband, because I don't know how it is in America, but when I went into the room for the biopsy, my husband had come with me to the appointment but he wasn't allowed into the room where they do the biopsy. My husband had come with me to the appointment but he wasn't allowed into the room where they do the biopsy, and the reason that they do that they don't want the person that comes in with you to maybe have a bit of a funny day or you know find it all a little bit overwhelming. They want to just be focusing on you and caring for you. So I was in the room with the doctor who's doing the biopsy and the nurse the two most beautiful health care workers. They were just wonderful. But I did say to the doctor do you think it's most likely cancer? And she said, look, we are worried and we most likely think it is cancer. And I hadn't had the biopsy yet and my heart just cracked open. It was and what I thought it was just like. How am I going to tell Vinny, who sat out in reception?

Speaker 2:

In the reception area I had my biopsy and you know wonderful healthcare workers. I remember the name of Jess, the nurse, and she was just rubbing my hand as I was having the biopsy because I started to break down. You know when you start to cry and your body starts to shake because it's right in your chest and it was like, well, obviously they couldn't do the biopsy if I'm moving. So, um, and that was happening, and unbeknownst to me, the breast surgeon that me and Vinny had just seen before the biopsy, he came out into reception and spoke to my husband, vinny, and sort of said we are concerned, we think it's breast cancer. So then my husband was sat in reception with that news, thinking, oh my God, how am I going to tell Luan what that doctor's just told me? So two of us are in these separate rooms, hearts cracked open, yeah, and that's how that went for my, my biopsy. But we, we got home and we both shared what we'd been told. And that's when I did fall on the floor. You know, I was crying, I was devastated, and then I gave my head a bit of a wobble and this is where the half, half full or three quarters full person came into play. Is that I just thought, okay, this is happening. So what am I going to do about it?

Speaker 2:

And I kind of went into action Jackson mode and I started making calls to try and find healthcare professionals and I was diagnosed with invasive pleomorphic globular breast cancer in my right breast. It's hormone positive, her2 negative and it was multicentric and multifocal, so that meant it was in more than one quadrant of the breast and then more in more than one area in those quadrants. So a rare aggressive type of cancer and unbeknownst to me and I really want to flag this for listeners and unbeknownst to me and I really want to flag this for listeners I did have a sign of that cancer and I'd never noticed it. And in my inframammary fold or your, your boob crease or your bra line, there I had a dimple. An invasive lobular cancer often not always, but often presents itself in different ways. You know it's not always lump, it might be a dimple or the presentation. And I couldn't see it because when I just held my hands up like that in the in the in the bathroom, I said, like that, it's a podcast. I realize you can't see, but when I held my hands up in the bathroom it was in the shade of the overhead lights and I couldn't see it. So, um, yeah, so that's my, that's my diagnosis story.

Speaker 2:

But I recently met Sam Johnson. Yes, I want to hear about, but I was attending an awards gala. So in Australia we have an organization called Patients Australia and they're about representing the voices of patients in healthcare and last year I won the Outstanding Patient Advocate of the Year Award in Australia and I was so fortunate I was honored to win that award. But then I was really fortunate to be asked back as a judge this year to judge that award and Sam Johnson was asked to be a judge for another category as well and Patients Australia arranged for us to meet.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it was on the news and it was all a bit nerve wracking and and things like that, but it was just wonderful to be able to meet him, to tell that story and to thank him.

Speaker 2:

And I, like you know the word thank you aren't big enough, but it was really. It was really emotional. You know, it took me to that kind of took me to a place I don't often go, but the what if? Place, like I started to think like what if I hadn't seen him on the TV that night? You know he was he, his sister had just died and he and he was on the TV sharing his bearing, his heart, sharing his story. And because of him doing that and this is one of the, you know, the powers of us, sharing our stories because he did that, I learned that mammograms were free and I, you know, I, was diagnosed with breast cancer. If I'd awaited another four years for that routine screening, my diagnosis most likely you know we can't say with a hundred percent certainty, but pretty much would have been stage four metastatic breast cancer, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

You know, it's really interesting because now that you're in the space you are, you're an advocate, and my guess is that you have done the same type of thing for other people, you know, um, I'm hoping that I have been able to do that. I have had people reach out to me to tell me it's because of me that they've went to go get a mammogram. So it's that's what it takes, the storytelling and that must have made him feel so good that he was able to inspire you to do that. I'm so glad you got to meet him.

Speaker 2:

I am, and you're right, you know it is those stories. Those stories make meaning out of either the healthcare advice that we're giving where we should do something. You know or should get something checked, or you know that doesn't mean anything until we understand the why, the why for we need to do it and what can happen if we don't. And yeah, he was really pleased as well for his sister. He said he'd shared that his sister hadn't followed up some things that she thought were unusual for her body and then she had a stage four diagnosis. So it's really important to him awareness and look, it's awareness of all cancers. Love your sister, um, have a mission to vanquish all cancers and it's about being aware. You know your boobs, your breasts, but all parts of your body as well. If there's anything unusual, you need to get it checked out and you don't need to think about it that you're going to the doctors to find something. You're just going to the doctors for a checkout and for confirmation that you're all okay. Don't, don't be worrying about it.

Speaker 1:

Well, you know, it's interesting that you said that you had a dimple, because I think you probably know that I'm a lemonista. You know through Know your Lemons, and I never really knew the visual parts of breast cancer, the 12 signs. I didn't know that there were that many signs. Most people, or a lot of people, think that it all is in this, just feeling a lump or something like that. But there's so much more to it and had you known, had you actually seen the visual of the know your lemons with the 12 signs, you may have thought, oh, if you did see the dimple, if you could see the dimple, you might've gone in as well. Yeah, Interesting.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think I think know your lemons. I think the the image and the graphic that they use with the lemons in the egg carton is really powerful, I think, to do that yeah, I mean, I did understand that breast cancer wasn't always a lump, but I just couldn't.

Speaker 2:

I just couldn't see it and I couldn't feel it. Yeah and but yeah, I was just really fortunate. I think that I think everything happened at the right time for me, because I also have dense breast tissue and evasive lobular can be tricky to see anyway, just because of the way it grows in that kind of spider web like can't you know kind of way. Um, it could be just a single cell wide, so it can be difficult to see. So to see it in a dense breast tissue, I think you know I was really looking. Actually, my, my breast surgeon said to me you know you are lucky that they've seen this in this imaging. So I think it happened all at the right time for me. But yeah, I think, know your Lemons how they depict that is fabulous, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Well, and I am really on a mission to try to get other lemonistas around the world. As you probably have seen, I went to Peru recently with seven other breast cancer survivors. We did this great backpacking and it was wonderful. And our guide her name is Elizabeth, but she we called her Mama Sherpa and she took us to her village and we just really got to know her and I believe she said that there is one person in her village per month that dies of cancer and she really wants to be able to, you know, bring that education about, especially breast cancer to her whole family. And I'm kind of trying to nudge her to become a lemonista, so hopefully. Okay, so you were 46, you said, yeah, I just turned 46. Yeah, you said, yeah, I just turned 46. Yeah, and how long ago was that?

Speaker 2:

So that was 2017. So, oh, 2017. You already said that.

Speaker 1:

Thank you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, it's all good At the end of 2017. And I gosh, I often get these dates confused, right? I think COVID has messed with all our timelines.

Speaker 1:

For sure yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I was diagnosed at the end of 2017. And you know when I mentioned how I think it happened at the right time. I do believe I was really fortunate to be in Australia with my diagnosis as well and cancer center, because australia is a huge country, you know. You've got a huge country, but ours is not as populated as yours, so you know access to services can be tricky in regional, remote and rural areas. So I was really fortunate that I lived kind of down the road from um, from a great cancer hospital and there's great cancer care in australia, um, and we have public and private health care systems here, so we have a two system. Um, and I had I started with chemotherapy before christmas.

Speaker 2:

I got neoadjuvant chemotherapy and then in 2018 in may I had a skin sparing mastectomy. So I had mastectomy and a tissue expander was put in. I then had radiotherapy for five or six weeks and that was all through 2018 because I'd had radiotherapy. My plastic surgeon's preference was to wait some time to to have the, the df or the deep flap surgery. You know at each, so everyone's different protocols change all the time, but this was the preference at the time for that surgeon and he preferred to wait six months now. Six months would have taken me into the summer in Australia, which can get very hot.

Speaker 2:

You know, I was going to say how, what degrees it would be, but we, we use different money, don't we, when it comes to temperatures so but it gets very hot here and and I was like I don't want to be in the binder and all that kind of thing during the summer. So I had it in 2019, April, May, 2019. And I had a single. I made the decision to have a single reconstruction. I'd had my genetic testing by then and there was nothing that was found there and I decided to go ahead with a single. So, yeah, I had that in 2019 and then through, obviously. Then COVID came kind of at the end of 2019, 2020. And at the end of 2020, I had what is known as phase two revision tweaking, as we call it. I had my nipple reconstructed and I had, you know, the dog ears tidied up on my abdominal scar. But I also had that combined with a hysterectomy and oophorectomy ovary removal to reduce my risk of cancer. That's what I did. Did you? Yeah, Did you do that?

Speaker 2:

in the first phase or the second phase, I did it in my second phase.

Speaker 1:

I had had a partial back in 2012 because they had to take my uterus out because it had a hematoma on it and they couldn't get to it. So they're like, oh, we just need to take the thing out. I'm like, oh, okay, I wasn't having kids or anything like that, but yeah, and then I ended up having an oophorectomy. It was the second phase, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, and I had mine abdominally because I had a seroma that they were taking the capsule of the seroma out so they were having to open me up abdominally anyway. So it was kind of that opened up the excuse upon that, opened up the discussion to go well, whilst whilst we're in there, do we want to consider this other surgery? So I just had it, had it all done, all done at once. You know, and I've been in, I've been in medical menopause since chemotherapy. I'd kind of coped okay. I was on tamoxifen, um, and I kind of done all right with medical menopause. But I found surgical menopause really different for me. It's harder, for me it's really. And now I'm on an aromatase inhibitor, um, but I found surgical menopause really tough, whereas you know, medical menopause not saying I flew through it, but it like it was nothing compared to surgical menopause- Right, you know, one of the things that sometimes I bring up with guests is our husbands.

Speaker 1:

you know, because our husbands are such a huge part of this. Or you know, if you're married or not married, your partner it's such a huge part of this for me. You know. Well, when you stand up there and you're getting married, you are saying that I'll be with you through sickness and health. And the other day I just interviewed a gal who had just been married for like a year and it's like you know, you get this cancer and you're like, yeah, oh, okay, wait. So we were really serious about that, right, like in sickness and health thing, as, in comparison, I had been married for 17 years and we know that. You know relationships, marriages, you know you're growing every step of the way your entire marriage and things change throughout the years. How did you guys do? Did you? Was your husband a good caregiver?

Speaker 2:

He was amazing, yeah, and I it was. I'm just trying to think how long we'd been married at that point. I think we'd been married at six, 16 years. When I got diagnosed.

Speaker 2:

I really felt for Vinny, numerous reasons, I mean, you know I said I kind of went into action Jackson mode. I felt like I was. That was the only thing I could control was certain things around my treatment. You know, like seeing a nutritionist doing this, doing that, spreadsheets galore. I went spreadsheet tastic and that was me and my control, whereas Vinny didn't have too much that he could take control of.

Speaker 2:

But also he was in a new job. He just started in a new job and he it was a six months probation period and he was in that six months and that you know, because I'd had to give. I'd had to give up work because I was under contract, I didn't get any sick pay or anything like that, I'd had to finish work. Everything came down to him and he was in the six months probation and had that to deal with whilst trying to go okay, I'm going to come in with you for chemo and he'd bring his laptop in and he'd work. He didn't have to, but that's how it just worked out. I was, luckily, I was fine during chemo. So he had a lot of stress, I think, added to it to what was already a stressful time for him professionally, but it was. It was really interesting. He was, he was amazing mostly and, like I'd say, there were some instances, I think, where the shock really overwhelmed him.

Speaker 2:

I can remember I walked back from chemotherapy because the hospital was so close to me. I just walked back and I knew the exercise was going to be good. So I walked back from chemotherapy because the hospital was so close to me, I just walked back and I knew the exercise was meant to be good. So I walked back from chemo, my first chemo session, and he was just a little bit bamboozled and dazed by it all, whereas I was just on a mission. You know, I knew what I wanted to do and I think there were some times where, yeah, they were a bit tricky. But the trickiest times were when I was on steroids and I hadn't been told that you could get void rage from steroids and I and I didn't know. So I was on steroids because of chemotherapy, because that was part of my protocol and we had the most awful row, but I didn't know that steroids could make you, uh, really ragey crazy crazy yeah, and I was like so look, he'd done something that probably could have been done a little bit better.

Speaker 2:

But I think my response to it was off the charts because of the rage. But uh, yeah, he was wonderful, really, really wonderful. It brought us closer. I don't know about you, have you found that really closer? You know you start to.

Speaker 2:

For me, anyway, I was starting to think of that existential threat of the cancer. I remember because we were coming up for Christmas. I was like is this my last Christmas? Yeah, um, I remember because we were coming up for Christmas. I was like is this my last Christmas? Yeah, I remember saying to him you know, if I die, I know you'll need help. You'll need help with everything and clearing all my stuff out and stuff, but I only want you to clear out my undies drawer. I didn't want any. I told a friend this recently she's like what's in your undies drawer? And I was like there's just undies drawer, I didn't want any. I told a friend this recently she's like what's in your undies drawer? And I was like there's just undies, there's nothing, but I just didn't want anyone else to be kind of going through them. Yeah, but yeah, and I remember I wrote him a letter when I went in for for one of my surgeries and it was a letter really, if I didn't wake up.

Speaker 2:

But then I thought that's really, that's really heartbreaking and that I just it didn't feel right to read the letter, for him to read the letter if I died. So I read him the letter before I went, went into surgery. Yeah, he was pretty, pretty wonderful, but you know, as with everything you know, it doesn't because you've had a cancer diagnosis it doesn't mean that all of a sudden you're going to be in this relationship. That's all roses. You still have the arguments, right, whether they're amplified by steroids. We are human beings. So it's not. It wasn't this. Um, no, you know synergy, all the time we still, we still argued. But yeah, he was pretty wonderful and still is. Yeah, he supports all my work that I do, you know fabulously.

Speaker 1:

Well, he should, because it's amazing, yeah, I would say that is very similar to my husband and I have always been very, very close, like we, you know, joined at the hips or the shoulders or wherever, and you know, we've just have, really we've just always had an intense love for each other, and so to deal with this was very challenging, and we'd had our ups and downs throughout our marriage, but we've always been so in love that we've gotten through it, we've done the work, let's put it that way. My husband is one of those people who will actually do the work when it's needed. And so that part knock on wood, I don't think this is real wood. Oh, here's real wood. I'll knock on wood. I don't know if you guys do that over there, but we do.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but we actually did go to therapy during it, right after my first surgery, I was really having a rough time and, and so we had gone rounds on some things, because he, he definitely was not understanding some things, and I think, with men too, and maybe women too, but I'm just going to say it about men, is that they, they want to fix things, they want to be able, if they're not in control, and being able to help you things they want to be able. If they're not in control and being able to help you, that's really difficult for them, I think, and that's where the miscommunication comes in and misunderstandings. And but if you're, if, if you're lucky enough to be able to be with someone who will do the work and really sit down and talk about it and even go to therapy, you know, that's always a plus. Although I will tell you that my husband bought a effing motorcycle right in the middle of my chemo. I'm not even kidding, I had boyfriends when I was younger who had motorcycles, who had been in wrecks, and so having him buy a motorcycle he had just made this major decision right smack in the middle of my chemo treatments and I was so mad at him we went rounds on it.

Speaker 1:

So you know, I don't know, I don't know what possessed him to do that, knowing that it was really really difficult on me to cause. I just didn't want him to leave on his motorcycle ride and not come back. You know, I mean, I was really fearful about that, but anyway, we got through that.

Speaker 2:

So that was his kind of response to it in a way, wasn't it? And I think therapy and counselling is is. It's really important for us to talk about that and thank you for sharing, jamie, because it is, you know, like with all health things, right, we're not necessarily the experts in those and we need to get that help. Sometimes we didn't do couples, but I did go for counselling. I had psych help during treatment and actually I still do. I still do today, every now and again I think I'm okay, and then actually I'm not, and it might only be every six weeks or so, but I still have a psych check-in. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Well, and that's interesting because you're what, eight years down the road, right, and you're still going to your therapy and I still also, I had a friend of mine who connected me to this particular therapist that I've been going to your therapy and I still also, I had a friend of mine who connected me to this particular therapist that I've been going to ever since my diagnosis and she has been amazing, Like she has and I still. I see her about every six-ish weeks.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, I really love mine, is really into somatic therapy, is really understanding how the body carries trauma and things like that, not just from a mental perspective, but like recently I was having some issues and then when we dug down into it, it's like, oh, this is the time of year that you've always had surgeries. You know like maybe your body remembers that and, look, some people might align with that, some people might not. I do it kind of made sense to me to go yeah, this time of year, when the lights a certain way, the temperature is a certain way, this was the time that I had my mastectomy. It was a diet. I've also had like gallbladder removed since cancer and stuff like that. It's all around a similar time a year that I've my body has physically had a trauma and, you know, gone into a general anesthetic as well. So, yeah, yay to, yay to mental health and looking after it. I think let's talk about it.

Speaker 1:

PTSD is real. Yes, hello, my lovely listeners, I just thought I would take a break right here, since my interview with Luann went a bit longer than usual. So I am going to make this part one of this wonderful conversation and I will release part two next week. Thank you so much for joining Friends. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Test those Breasts. I hope you got some great much needed information that will help you with your journey. As always, I am open to guests to add value to my show, and I'm also open to being a guest on other podcasts where I can add value. So please reach out if you'd like to collaborate. My contact information is in the show notes and, as a reminder, rating, reviewing and sharing this podcast will truly help build a bigger audience all over the world. I thank you for your efforts. I look forward to sharing my next episode of Test those Breasts. Thank you,

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